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Going back in time .

Well I am starting this blog to record my return to an older type of shaving . Like most of us I at present use the ubiquitous supermarket disposable razors , and have done so for , well I don't really know how long . When did these disposable and cartridge type of razors come about ? I guess I have been shaving regularly since I was around 16 which ,as I was born in 1953 , make it around 1969 when I started . I have a memory a very faint one I admit , to having a razor that twisted to open and receive a double edge blade of the kind that came in little rectangular boxes . I remember that the blades came wrapped in paper and the used blades were posted into a slot in the back of the box . Now that is all I actually remember of these things and as soon as the more modern types , disposables came out I started using them. Well you would wouldn't you how many teenagers want to do things as their Fathers do most of us wanted to look modern I guess , well I did anyway .

So where is all this rambling leading to , I am glad you asked ! As I am getting somewhat better at sharpening knives My poor weak mind seems to be taken with the idea of buying a straight razor from an antiques centre ,something from the 1880's to around the demise of the Old Queen , in 1901 I think . I admit that I only knew the date of Queen Victoria's death from watching my favourite John Wayne film The Shootist . So the thought of going from a modern razor to an inexpertly sharpened cutthroat is for me a daunting prospect and unusually good sense has prevailed and instead of leaping straight back to the end of the nineteenth century perhaps the 1950's may be a better place to start .

I have now checked out a few video's on YouTube and have found that the razors that I remember from my youth are indeed called DE or double edge . In fact this whole retro shaving lark is alive and kicking without me knowing anything about it . Youtube is awash with helpful young fellows scraping the whiskers off their finely honed chins with razors that they certainly don't remember from the first time round . Mind you I have learned an awful lot more about shaving than my Father ever taught me ,I guess it must have been him that showed me the ropes though I don't remember the lesson .

So I now have an Edwin Jagger DE89 razor and am waiting for those fine folks at Amazon to deliver the rest of the not inconsiderable amount of gear that it seems I must have . A styptic pencil ,what a word from the dawn of history , anyway I have forgotten to order one so in the short term things may get bloody !! The razor looks nice and I am thinking that it is probably of a lot higher quality than I would have had in the late sixties. I would likely have had an old one of my Dad's to start .

I hope to return to this blog in the future , blood loss allowing , and record my return journey to the shavings of my youth and hopefully back in time to the days of the Old Queen and a wonderful straight razor . Got to get through my lack of a styptic pencil first , can't imagine what a young girl in the chemist will think if I ask for one of those .

Tags: ., DE, Ramblings, Razors, Shaving, Time, Travel

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Comment by John Bamford on August 9, 2016 at 12:27: I have made a few strops Allan . As I work for the local council , or at least I did before we were privatised , a lot of the rubbish that is picked up comes through our yard and I tend to pay attention when I see a leather sofa on the back of a truck . Course it has to be on it's way to the dump and if so my knife is out and a panel is removed pretty quick . I shape a piece of flat wood to a strop shape and glue the leather on with "no more nails" or some similar glue PVA works fine . Have you heard of Rockstead knives they are a pretty expensive Japanese knife maker,

http://www.heinnie.com/knives-and-tools/f/brand/rockstead

They recommend making a strop from fixing a piece of denim fabric to a board and coating it in metal polish and their knives are known for their edge retention .

I guess anything that polishes the edge is good enough .

Comment by allanm on August 9, 2016 at 12:00: Since you mentioned strops John - I'm sure most on this forum know the benefit of a good leather strop, but I would guess many people not into knives as we are have no clue. They don't even use a stone of any form, just one of the cheap carbide, or ceramic style draw through type "sharpeners".

I don't (yet) have a real strop, but what I have been doing for a while though it is not ideal, is using one of my leather belts. I simply put my foot on one end of it on the floor, hold the other end in one hand, and use the inside where any marks won't be seen as a strop. As I said, not ideal, but it does work and makes a surprising difference to a knife sharpened on my simple Smith's brand medium and fine grit Arkansas stones.

I read somewhere of using common packing cardboard as an alternative, in the absence of a real strop, or leather belt. While nowhere near as good, it actually did a pretty decent job when I tried it just for interest. I just used the corner of a brown cardboard box from shipping, or a flat piece of cardboard folded over would do as an emergency strop / honing system. Of course real leather is by far the best and I really do need to buy one and stop abusing my belts!

Comment by John Bamford on August 9, 2016 at 11:27: As we were talking about sharpening I thought that it might be an idea to discuss the tricky business of sharpening razors . There is an almost endless supply of information on the web , it is wonderful to have all this stuff available but at times it can feel like an avalanche of knowledge and is too much to cope with . I really like the amount of info that is out there but when you are new to this razor sharpening business it is hard to sort the wheat from the chaff as they say .

It is not too long since I bought my first razor from eBay , as I didn't wish to waste a lot of cash on a razor when I wasn't sure if I had the bottle to use it . So looking for a way to get an edge on this thing I head of to one of the main straight razor sites .

It wasn't a great idea because the first piece of advice I find is don't buy from eBay . The second is don't try to learn to sharpen , sorry "hone" these guys tend to be sticklers for terminology , whilst you are trying to learn to shave with a straight razor . You should buy a new razor and get a "honemeister" to sharpen the thing whilst you get your pretty little head around using it .

The don't buy from eBay , firstly if you buy a lesser known or "no name" razor from eBay it will be cheap and if it isn't don't buy it . Only buy a razor that has clear pics and buy one that looks like it has no or very little wear on the spine. As the razor is sharpened by laying the spine and the edge on the stone any sharpening leaves wear on the spine , unless tape has been used but that is unlikely for such a cheap razor . The blade can be a little warped , I have bought one like that and use it though it would be better if it wasn't . Having said that my average spend on an eBay razor is around £10 /$13 even if the thing is shaped like a banana it is hardly likely to break the bank .So I now have ten razors and feel I am getting addicted to looking for cheap eBay blades .

Well okay we have a bunch of razors probably made between the 30s/50s what next , that depends on how much you have to spend and which video's you watch on Youtube . The route with a dozen Japanese waterstones with increasingly fancy names is one I shan't be taking but then I have found it is possible to get by with a lot less .

So with the vast knowledge gained from three or four months of doing this I reckon three stones and a fairly cheap leather strop will do the trick , that's all I use anyway and am thoroughly enjoying my straight shaving

The first stone for "setting the bevel"as it is called could be anything between 1000/3000 I couldn't say exactly what grit mine is because I bought the stone so long ago and it is all written in Japanese on the side . Most people seem to recommend 1000 grit but Mastro Livi uses 3000 and to me he is somewhat like Tony Bose in the knife world , if he says it is right then I am not going to argue.

Second stone a 7000 or somewhere similar , I use a Belgian Blue and being a natural grit doesn't mean a lot but it does the job just fine a Norton 4000/8000 combination would do the job pretty well and I would be tempted but the cost over here is rather high .

Then a finishing stone before stropping at the moment I have an Imperial La Roccia and that seems good enough , it's not very expensive and some people don't give it top marks , I sometimes wonder if those two things are not connected .

This is my approach at the moment and it will not meet everyone's approval so to quote my sources two video's from Dr Matt , he does a very good video does Dr Matt !

https://youtu.be/cXVW_S6VaBw

https://youtu.be/Ud486L38bDk

So to finish if anyone is thinking of having a shot at this straight razor business it is possible to do it without breaking the bank just as long as you enjoy learning . There are enough video's on Youtube to keep you amused for a long time and if my approach doesn't work for you there is the one stone Coticule business , but that's another story as they say !!

Comment by John Bamford on August 9, 2016 at 9:22: I think Dale that at first I was influenced by a lot of the things I saw online about "hair popping sharp" etc .

Then it took a while to get over the fact that I could make a knife that sharp before I realised with Thomas' help that it wasn't really the best approach .

Thanks for the kind words Allan but I am afraid a writers life would not be for me I am basically idle and wish to retire to sit and watch the world go by , as long as I have a shed to retreat to now and then .

Comment by allanm on August 9, 2016 at 6:46: "Of course it is nice to have knives that gleam in the dark and frighten fruit into submission just by the threat of the edge."

I like this John! You should be a writer :-)

In Memoriam Comment by D ale on August 9, 2016 at 6:25: I whole heartedly agree with John's stated approach. That of sharpening to the level required by the tool in the job it will be performing. For me .. to get a REALLY sharp edge .. I reduce the included angle of the edge. This results in a sharper ..but.. more fragile cutting edge. This is not appropriate for a yard tool / gardening tool / hatchets ..or.. a knife with softer steel. It is appropriate for other applications. e.g. The scalpel blade of my A.G. Russell is sharpened @ a lower angle & is reserved for more precise cutting applications. The main blade is sharpened @ a larger included angle & is implemented for more general use.

Enjoy

D ale

Comment by John Bamford on August 9, 2016 at 1:48: The removal of steel is a very valid point Jan and with the price of good knives being what they are it's best to not shorten their lives !

For me however the reason for not taking the edge past the sharpness needed for any task is slightly different . When I first bought an Edge Pro I would go through the full progression on every knife I came across . From 240 grit to the 6000 polishing tapes my kitchen knives would look fantastic with their edges all gleaming and bright . They wouldn't cut a tomato though , the edge was so polished that it would only go through tomato skin with the sort of persuasion that you would need to use on a blunt knife . I would do a similar job on any knife that I got my hands on but soon found that I tired of trying to put the ultimate edge on a knife that would not benefit from it . My kitchen knives have fairly soft steel and respond best to being sharpened quite frequently . Getting the Edge Pro set up and doing the full job is a time consuming business and if it is needed every other time you use the knife , well life is too short !!

It was around that period when Thomas , who has a far greater knowledge of sharpening knives than I ever will , mentioned sharpening only to the point were the blade is most efficient . He went into more detail than that of course but since then I have tried to follow his advice and saved myself a lot of wasted time and effort .

Of course it is nice to have knives that gleam in the dark and frighten fruit into submission just by the threat of the edge . Though if all that effort means you are not willing to use the knife for fear of scratching the polished edge , I have heard someone say that on another forum, then to me it isn't a knife but an ornament .

Comment by Jan Carter on August 8, 2016 at 18:41: John,

I think that Thomas has a valid point. Regardless of how well you sharpen, you lose steel every time so why take it beyond where you need to go for the purpose in mind for that particular blade?

Comment by John Bamford on August 7, 2016 at 10:24: Oh I am glad that you got that penny its a small enough token but I have an undue fondness for the year of 1901 , no good reason for it . I did have an awful feeling that it would fall fowl of your customs for some hard to fathom reason , I do tend to worry about customs people more than is reasonable .

Ah well I can use the razor you sent me with more confidence now that you have the " payment ", second part to follow later .

I used to read a lot about heat treatment when I was new to collecting knives but then realised there was very little I could do about it except buy good quality knives or at least as good as I can afford . To be honest though the only knife I use hard these days is my EnZo Birk for whittling at stray pieces of wood , its D2 and takes a very good edge . These days I don't try to put too sharp an edge on it , not shaving sharp like they do in a lot of the forums . A friend from Sweden called Thomas , he visits iKC occasionally , he reckons you should sharpen knives differently for the different purposes you need them for . I have followed his advice since then and now my Birk is sharp enough for whittling but you wouldn't want to shave with it .

I wouldn't have guessed that 6UL DV8 mind I rarely guess any of them , and purely by the way I can never follow song lyrics and often get them completely wrong !

That Claus is a very hard steel , much harder than the razor I did yesterday . I resharpened that razor this afternoon it did shave this morning okay but felt a little coarse . That may have been more due to the fact that Sue wanted to rearrange the furniture in the house and wanted me out of the way whilst it was done . So I was under pressure to get out of the way and that isn't conducive to a relaxing shave . Will try it again tonight cos tomorrow could be a rush as I have to go to physio first thing for my knackered legs .

In Memoriam Comment by D ale on August 7, 2016 at 9:46: The most memorable vanity plate I've ever seen was on a Rolls- Royce in Vegas.

The company I was employed with @ that time maintained a display @ the CES show .. 14 years straight .. every Feb .. we left the cold of Wisconsin for the relative warmth of Las Vegas.

Indeed .. @ a traffic light .. the other engineer driving the rent-a-car .. broke out laughing. When I asked why .. he pointed out the Rolls one lane over & ahead just enough that we could read the plate. 6UL-DV8. Driven by an attractive (fake) blonde .. early 40's. I didn't get it @ first .. finally .. Rudy pointed out .. Vegas .. expensive car .. cute girl .. w/ a plate that reads "sexual deviate".

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OK .. wonder what she did for a living ??

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I also can sunburn the top of my head & am certainly not as nimble as I once was. I've accepted the aging process as a normal progression of life .. doesn't make it any easier though. My joints are currently a far better predictor of the weather than are the Weather Guessers employed by the local TV stations.

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Re: heat treatment. Many do not realize it's importance. I see that especially in the newer collectors ..but.. across the board too.

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There is a cutlery company here in the states .. Frost Cutlery Co .. that produces a wide range of traditional & modern tactical pocket knives. They are MASS produced & “dirt cheap”. The quality varies greatly .. even within the same model type. I have ordered 3 of his lockback whittlers & received … ... ... 1 where the locking mechanism did NOT function properly .. 1 with a secondary blade that opened “gritilly” ..&.. 1 that functioned properly. The fit-n-finish of all were ..well.. I got what I paid for. At the time .. that was < $10.oo per knife.

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Note: I regularly give these away as a person's first knife .. nieces, nephews, friend's children, work associates, etc. . The safety of the locking main blade is very nice for a first pocket knife. Having 3 blades is nice for the fact that one generally will have at least one sharp blade available. At their current price of $11.oo ~ $13.oo .. my budget can accommodate it ..&.. when lost or broken .. as is often the case with a youngster's first knife .. no one but the youngster is truly upset.

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Anyway, the blade steel is 440A that has been tempered to the high end of it's capacity. The resulting hardness spec looks great in the sales literature ..but, in reality.. results in a very brittle blade. It is very easy to break these blades .. snap them in two .. if used improperly as a pry bar.

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Heat treatment .. the tempering of the blade steel .. is of utmost importance in the overall function of the knife !!! Further .. the blade temper can be changed .. will be changed .. if the blade is mistreated in a manner that causes the temperature to raise above a critical point. Sharpening a knife on a “bench grinder” is a common & effective means of doing just that.

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Your approach to removing the surface rust from the Clauss razor was a good & proper approach. Tedious ..yes. But .. no chance of heat build up & negatively impacting the existing temper of the blade. Also, the view that it is an old item & therefor nothing wrong with there existing some blemishes upon the surface that merely reflect that age .. without of course, impeding the actual function of the razor. That is a very realistic view .. imo.

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John .. I received a card via “Royal Mail” yesterday. Including a Widow's Head penny .. featuring the veiled bust of Queen Victoria .. minted the year of her death .. 1901.

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!!! .. Thank You .. !!!

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More will follow on that once I've a chance to take some pics.

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Enjoy,

D ale