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Welcome to the Elephant Toenail Collector Club (ETCC).

Come on in. Membership is open and free. Here at the ETCC we all share our appreciation for this handful of a knife.
Purpose
The ETCC purpose is to celebrate this wonderful old knife pattern. Toenails collectors range from folks that are crazy about the old ones, like me, up to collectors of modern day productions.

Very Brief Toenail History
Toenails were first made around the turn of the twentieth century as hard-core working knives. Evidently the pattern was a popular knife because dozens of firms began production shortly after that. Interestingly, the knife took on different names as each maker attempted to differentiate their toenails from the others made during that era. Some of the nicknames includes, Vest Pocket Axe, Rope Knife, The Jumbo and many others. Today, they are primarily known as toenails, and elephant toes, elephant toenails and, probably the most popular- Sunfish knives.

In my research and interviews of the Old Timers of our era, all agree ET's are a highly popular pattern. While their reasons differ, each agrees their unique design has immediate appeal.

Collecting Toenails-
The approaches used by toenail collectors range widely also. Some tend to collect based on the era the knife was made in, for example those who are primarily into the timeframe of the Granddaddies of cutlery history productions (Platts, WR Case, Case Brothers, Napanoch, New York Knife Co., Cattaraugus, etc); others limit their collection to a single brand, others still, go after toenails made around a specific geo location of the cutlery company, and then others like particular handle materials. There are even others, but you get the idea.

If you aren't into the history of the knife, that's cool too, cause they are still being made today by many firms, and even custom makers too.

Tags: Elephant, Knives, Toenail

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Replies to This Discussion

How did these knives originate ??

Posted by Andy Voelkle "AxeMan" on May 10, 2009

These knives are really new to me! How they come into being, anyway? Our Gulf Coast Knife Club features a knife each year, and the new one is an "elephant toenail". OK, I'm an 8-year-old Cub Scout at heart, so I'm springing a hundred bucks to get my first one. Can't figure out a single reason, except they're so fat and cool looking. What's this design all about???

Reply by Scott King on May 10, 2009 at 22:03

Oh so I wish we were sitting over a cup of coffee to talk about this with you, Andy. The elephant toenail (sunfish) knife is rich in history and full of all the things in a made for TV movie, and involves many of the granddaddies of American cutlery history.

Bottomline: This wonderful pattern was made for heavy work- manual labor, hunting, trapping, etc. The earliest we have been able to definitely trace it back to is right about 1900. Have also been unable to determine the first firm to have produced it, or a patent.

It is a popular pattern and is increasing in demand among new collectors due to Great Eastern producing them like they were in the old days, more or less.

 Reply by Andy Voelkle "AxeMan" on May 11, 2009 at 0:12

That all seems very reasonable! I can't wait to get mine. Meanwhile, I'll start reading your great web site on the subject. I've collected a few knives for a long time-- what amazes me is how little I know. Your new creation here, iknifecollector.com is really an interesting way to meet some smart folks and start filling in a few of my knowledge gaps. Thanks!

 Reply by Merle Hagen on May 11, 2009 at 11:36

These knives were working knives used by carpenters and sailors in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds. Thats the reason for the heavy blades, sailors would use belaying pins to hammer the blade through a line to cut it. Thats the reason only a few survived this long.

 Reply by Scott King on May 19, 2009 at 8:32

Thanks Andy.
What excites me about iKC is it is still in its infancy (it's only 35 days old)....just imagine 5 years from now the range of experience and content iKC will offer collectors on ALL types of knives.

If you could "modernize" a toenail, what would you like?

Posted by Scott King on August 6, 2009

One of our fellow iKC members, Jack Walker wrote me a question. Thought it was a good discussion.

Here it goes- "Would anyone like a elephant toe to use as a EDC ?. Maybe with G10 scales. ats 34 blade? Maybe with one blade, to help keep the weight down? Maybe have some made up for every day use? Just a thought."

What do you say? If you could have one made tell us about it.

Reply by Scott King on August 6, 2009 at 17:25

Like the stonewashed blades, myself.

Reply by Trent Rock on August 6, 2009

Urban Camo
870 Macro Love

Reply by A. G. Russell on August 6, 2009

How about 4 1/2 inches closed. a hair under 1 1/2 inches wide, both handle and blade. The dblade of my prototype is .215 not quite the .240-.250 I wanted. Flat ground to the top of the blade with a common swedge and a thumb notch like the 2008 Texas Ranger on each side for easy one hand opening. Handled in Black Rucarta as the 2010 Texas Ranger and then in various exotic woods. Stag this size would cost a couple of hundred and pearl would be out of sight in price and hard to find enough pairs to do a project.

Do you think that any one besides Scott will be interested in such a knife costing under $100???

You have twenty folks here, beside Scott and I, how many would like to see a pic of the prototype?
Reply by Scott King on August 6, 2009 at 18:55
LOL. Trent, that is really good. Sorry, it just struck me funny :) Yeah, I could go for it. Tiger stripes too.
Reply by Scott King on August 6, 2009
The truth is this knife could go "tactical" real easy- the standard style or the jumbo. Can't you just see NutnFancy or cutlerylover doing a youtube review on one?. Even keep the name- Jumbo. It'd have to be made by a non-traditional knife company to qualify though...like maybe ZT or Strider? It'd sell like hot cakes to all the young guys and they'd never know they were one step away from being an antique toenail collector :)

It already is "customized" by Hanson, Bose, Claiborne and I'm sure any others with lots of fancy stuff and exotic handles.

Ya know the more I think of it, it needs to be "modernized" (the jumbo that is) and the potential buying market would broaden dramatically....but it would need to be keep under $500, if possible.

I mean look at this by Strider-


Now compare that too this--


Tell me you can't see this knife gone tactical. Can't you just see it with a dual ti thumb studs :)

....sorry, I got off carried away with that idea
Reply by A. G. Russell on August 6, 2009
go to facebook and talk to Phillip W Gibbs about this pattern, he did the engineering on it and when the prototype came in yesterday he went nuts.
Reply by Scott King on August 6, 2009
Can you see it now? :)

Reply by Scott King on August 6, 2009

Since it's so big it'd need a clip.

Reply by Andy Voelkle "AxeMan" on August 6, 2009

I'm getting a Schatt & Morgan Wildcat Driller Whittler. I'm going to throw the box away. Sharpen it. Put it in my pocket. Right by my gun.

Reply by Trent Rock on August 6, 2009

ROFL!!

Well Scott
I joined the group I guess I HAVE to buy a toenail now!!
Did Western ever make one??

I collects all things urban camo ;)

Reply by hari urmeneta on August 7, 2009

.....talk to me about quality. what would the RC be? Sharpness? Edge life, etc. Got concerns on the movement of what I call "Surface Nice"....."Internal Junk". Would the above knife be a Using EDC or just a EDC for the "look what I got for cheap" crowd? When You tag on the "mark up" on the $100....doesn't look like there's too much of a "knife" there.

Reply by Scott King on August 7, 2009

Glad you got the little humor I added up there. Yeah, you need a toenail- everyone needs at least one.

You can go with handle material, age, location of the factory, brand, color, shield, price, etc. Give me a little info and I'll point the way.....

One good place to look around is eBay under Sunfish, elephant toenails. Great Eastern is now making a good quality one. Got me a stag not long ago.

Reply by Scott King on August 7, 2009

You gonna show it to us before you scratch it up using it aren't you?

Reply by Alan Stevens on August 9, 2009

Let's see here hummmmmm , if I could modernize a toenail. I think I would start with first stepping up the size a little , maybe a 3.5" blade. Widen the blade to about 1.25" Next I would thicken the blade a little , maybe 3/16" stock. I would do away with the top grind leaving more beef at the top of the blade. Do away with the long pull , the short pull is all you need. No thumb studs , in my opinion they would look gay on a traditional toenail style blade. Do away with the brass liners and have the knife stainless throughout. Use something rugged like G-10 for the handle material. Do away with the traditional pins and have the knife assembled with torx screws throughout. Do away with the old fashioned and outdated slip joint mechanism and go with a liner locking frame for added saftey and there ya go , now you have it both ways. The traditional toenail pattern with a modernized tactical flare.

Reply by David Hawkins on August 17, 2009

They always seem so hard to open, especially when they are new. How about loosening them up a bit with some washers and adding a "flipper" or would that be a "fin".

Maybe if someone could talk Benchmade into making a modern version they could add their Axis-lock? I'd love to be able to snap out a big fat Sunfish blade with a roll of the wrist...away from public view of course

Reply by Jesse Kinman on January 18, 2010

Sounds like a swell idea to me!

Toenail References from the Past

Posted by Scott King on May 2, 2009

Thought we could congregate the toenail specific references here-

Things like old catalog pictures of toenails, toenail boxes, ads with toenails in them, etc.

 Reply by Scott King on May 2, 2009

This is from a Funsten Brothers Trapping and Equipment Catalog from 191? I hate to guess, but if you see there is an Ulster knife shown and the tang of the top knife is also Ulster, so it might be an Ulster Toenail. I don't know if I am seeing right, but there appears to be an "..AN" on the tang stamp. How about that for some toenail trivia..


Here's the page:

Reply by Scott King on May 2, 2009

One of the most famous- From Hardware Age Magazine- A Case Brothers Ad. Taken from Harvey Platts Book- Knife makers who went west. My all time favorite.

Reply by Scott King on May 2, 2009

From a 1904 Case Brothers Catalog-

From a 1903 Gold Cross Coffee catalog offering Case Brother knives for a certain number of coupons redeemed. Pictured is the pearl handled toenail, but the fine print at the bottom of the catalog states only the bone is available.

From a Napanoch catalog

Reply by Scott King on May 2, 2009

1906 Youth's Companion Magazine- Napanoch Toenail

September 10, 1902 Edition of Youth's Companion

Reply by Scott King on May 2, 2009

Levine's Guild to Knives and Their Values, 4th Edition, published 1997

1914 Thomas Manufacturing Toenail ad

1906 French catalog


Here's some of the translation with some French words.
Couteau Boule-dogue Models- This knife especially to satisfy the desires of the sportsmen, motorists, hunters and of roads the people who test the need for possider either out of pocket, or in the satchel has tools, a knife of a solidite has any test for all uses. 8 c/m, larg. 27m/m, and a blade long canil kind, 5 c/m, width 15 m/m, out of steel guaranteed superior, sleeve horn of stag natural with broad protective ends copper nickel zinc alloy long total 15 c/m, weights 175 gr.. Model noureau, of garantic manufacture

D Lemaire provided me this ad- here's his notes

Dear Sir,
Please enclosed find a picture of a "french elephant toenails".
The french name for this pattern is "bouledogue". It is sold at least since
the 1900'.
A catalog dated 1906 from "La Manufacture FranÁaise d'armes et cycles de
Saint-Etienne" , a famous mail order company, shows this kind of pattern with 2
blades (a big one and a little "pen" one) or with a big blade and a punch .
Sincerely,
D Lemaire

Case Brothers Manufacturing Company, Gowanda, NY Box marked 8250 (pearl)

Grading old toenails

Posted by Scott King on March 26, 2011 

Don't know about you but the standard knife grading systems is lacking. You know the Mint, NM, VG, G, Fair and Poor "grade classifications" commonly used to label a knife relative to its condition.

 

I've blogged on this many times over at Cutlery News Journal and ElephantToenails.com about the difficulty associated with grading old knives, particularly old toenails.

 

In one sense what does it really matter? Right? Well, it does and here's an example that happened to me.

 

A dealer had a grand old Jumbo Swellcenter- it was a killer knife, seriously. The pictures told the story- full blades, perfect handles, clear stamps. Then the description confirmed the condition- "Minty" was how it was described. (Now we realize that VERY VERY few 100 yr. old knives are MINT, just cause these are hard-core working knives). Had it been described as MINT I'd been skeptical, but "minty" I accepted. (now this conversation we're having isn't about this dealer, OK? It is more about grading old toenails).

 

The reason this discussion is important is this- old toenails are typically expensive. We work hard for our money. This particular knife was priced at $6000.

 

While I was able to get it for a wee-bit less, it was still a bunch of money. Think it was $5800 we traded on (the point of this isn't me spending this amount of money for a toe, either, OK?). Understand this price was at the top-end of the toenail price range at that time....meaning I was paying TOP dollar (in my mind anyway).

 

I was super excited to have what would have been one of the best examples of a Platts Jumbo in my collection.

 

Now when I got the knife it was all I had hoped, except one "little" thing. Here's the knife- great looking isn't it!?

 

The rest of the story is this- the knife was in genuine authentic original condition and PERFECT- except one thing- the masterblade had no snap. Nope, none at all. Dead as a door nail.

 

So my question is this- what is the grade of this knife? You see it- perfect in every way, except no "Walk and Talk" on the masterblade.

 

Oh, and by the way- I sent it back. I wasn't going to pay the top-end of the Jumbo price range at the time for one with a dead masterblade. 

 

 Reply by Barry Stephenson on March 28, 2011

In Levine's Guide to Knives , he states NKCA grading as excellent only if both blades have walk and talk. One lasy blade is graded good to very good and both blades lasy are graded fair. This of coarse depends on the other factors of the knife. I agree with Scott, minty is a little high on grading this beautiful knife, guess the slow blades just slipped his mind. You do have to wonder what happened to make the slow blades on a knife that was never used to any extent. The craft people at that time would never have let that knife out of the factory. Do you think the back spring was never heat treated?

Reply by Chris Taylor (CTAYLORMAN) on May 14, 2011

Scott, I just picked up this exact knife "I think" today but one major problem, the small blade is broken. I am actually no collector of toenails but more of any old vintage knife no matter what it is. I am also far from an expert on any knife but felt this one was worth grabbing even with the broken blade. There are also three small pin cracks. One crack is on the front side handle at the bottom front pin to the bolster and the other two are on the backside handle at both front pins to the bolster but given what this is I could not pass it up. Now comes the most important question of all.......What in your opinion is it worth in this condition? I have provided multiple pictures. Thanks in advance for any advise or info you can provide.

The study of the MSA (Marbles) toenail

Posted by Scott King on February 18, 2011

MSA (Marbles) toenails are thought to be the Holy Grail of toenails and yet, it is commonly accepted Marbles didn't make a single toenail. Nope, we know Case Brothers (1900-1915) made them. That is not to say, another maker didn't at some point, but the overwhelming evidence is contrary.

 

The Marbles Catalogs (1905-1907) illustrates this knife. The earliest one pictures the knife with Case Brothers TESTED XX on the masterblade but without a tang stamp. (The knife picture is identical to that shown in the 1094 Case Brothers Catalog even down to the same description of the knife).

The 1906 & 1907 catalogs show the knife stamped M. S. A. CO. (first line), Gladstone (second line) and Michigan, USA (third line) without the TESTED XX.


The MSA Pearl Toenail as pictured from 1907. Two toenails were sold by Marbles: 8250 & 5250.

 

Understand too not all knives were made exactly as pictured , so going solely going off a picture can cause erroneous conclusions, but even still it can provide clues.

 

We also know that at one time "GLADSTONE" was misspelled. Yes, it had an "E" between the GLAD & STONE. Don't immediately assume the knife is "not right" just because of this typo (I know that is wild and would usually, automatically disqualify a knife, but not in this case).

 

Another interesting aspect is the use of U. S. A., noted knife expert Bernard Levine stated this might have been the earliest use of  this USA mark. He previously established it to be 1915.

 

 

 

Reply by David Hawkins on June 28, 2009

Scott,
Thanks for your advice. I am now the proud owner of this Great Easter Cutlery Northfield #252209J. It is my first toenail so it has to be my favorite for now. I never paid much attention to toenails previously They are much bigger and heftier than I ever imagined from the pictures. My knife collecting hobby has a whole new direction to explore now.

Northfield #252209J released on 4-03-09
1095 Carbon steel Spear and Pen Blades
Open length 5 1/8" Closed Length 3" Blade Length 2 1/8"
Handle Material Burnt Stag

Rehandles can be Works of Art...

Posted by Jack Crook on July 20, 2009

I thought I'd share this very special Mammoth Tooth Case rehandle, by one of our own....

Reply by William Paul McCoy on September 25, 2010 

These are some of the Case toes I have had customized; pre-ban ivory, Mammoth tooth, and brain coral; that one is a Bulldog not a Case. And a pic; of some different brand toes; that I have collected.

Paul

Your latest toenail purchase

Posted by Scott King on December 17, 2009

We're all about toenails here and we like to see all the different ones, so share with us your latest find. Don't worry about "showing off" cause we're all friends here.

Load up a pic and tell us a little about it, and why you bought that particular one to add to your collection.

I'll start us off-

Last month a friend of mine called me to say he had found this knife and wanted to know if I'd be interested. Needless to say- I was.

It is a burnt bone Union Cutlery Co, Olean, NY

'm thrilled to finally be able to say- I got one! I have tried unsuccessfully over the last 5 years to get one and now I do.

It is a C. Platts' Sons Jumbo Swellcenter Easy Open Single Blade. I know not all the members of the ETCC are into the oldies, but this is a treat. It is a "giveaway" knife made for R. Ryse of Indianapolis, Indiana. I've traced them down and will write some of their history soon. The knife was made sometime around 1900- 1905ish.

Thought you might enjoy it with me-

Reply by Roger Russell on March 9, 2011 

My last toenail purchase:  All are H. Boker & Co.'s Improved Cutlery. Thanks again scott!

Reply by Roger Russell on March 20, 2011

Not really my latest purchase, but my Dad gave this one to me recently. It's a Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Co. It  originally belonged to my Grandfather who died in 1945. The knife has been in my family ever since.

Reply by Billy Oneale on May 31, 2011 

One of my newest sunfish is a Bulldog baby sunfish.

Reply by Roger Russell on September 23, 2012

H. Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery.

Reply by Rick Hooper on January 11, 2013

This is the latest three sunfish, I bought while on vacation, Top two, from SMKW are Ocoee River Cutlery, a Frost Brand Import. Quanlity is a little higher than rough riders. The third bought at a Smoky Mountain junk/antique store  after I asked that sometimes,  magic question: "Got any old knives?!" and Yesss!. He brings out a King Edward cigar box and in with the mostly worn out Case XX and Camillus pocket knives, ( he had the shell bolstered Colonial and Imperials under glass, thank God!), under a broken Eye Brand stockman., was this big dirty sunfish with a ink stain in the corner of the bone! It is marked : North American, Beaver City, Nebr.  This is a great knife group !, and the forum posts and photos are a big help. Thanks Rick

Reply by Rick Hooper on May 27, 2013

Purchased another relatively unknown toenail brand , this is a Buhl & Sons, Detroit Mich.  Bernard Levine cutlery guru, predecessor to google and bing, states the company "BUHL SONS CO. was incorporated in 1902. They were a wholesaler of hardware for over 100 years! In 40 years of knife collecting and sales, I don't remember another Buhl knife passing thru my hands! Found this listing in Levine's 4th edition between Buffalo Cut. Co. NY and Bullhead Brand , Germany, the only cattle attributes this toenail shares is the bovine bone handles.  Don't expect to see another one any time soon! 

Leo,

That whaler is indeed a simply beautiful knife.  It is a very old pattern that was featured in the book the knives that went west.  I have to tell you though, that watch pocket of yours is my preference.  It is still a usable knife for me

I was looking through some old pics of ours this week and came across this one

Primitive Percheron Bone.  A low run was done because it was all the bone they could secure.  10 of one and 11 of the other.  The bone is lovely! 

http://iknifecollector.com/photo/taylor-cutlery-baby-toenail/next?c...

Taylor Cutlery 1980 - 3-3/8" Baby Toenail, Appaloosa smooth bone, master blade etched with "Hancock Class 32 gun Frigate US/UK Sailing Ship, built by Colonel James K. Hackett, launched March 21, 1776 - captured September 25, 1778, length 131 ft, carried 180 officers and enlisted crewmen, small blade etched "Raleigh 1776", bolster engraved '820', front tang stamped 'Elk Horn Surgical 1980', rear tang stamped 'Taylor Cutlery Japan'.



Jan Carter said:

I was looking through some old pics of ours this week and came across this one

Beautys both & very limited numbers Jan, thanks for sharing these.

Primitive Percheron Bone.  A low run was done because it was all the bone they could secure.  10 of one and 11 of the other.  The bone is lovely! 

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