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DISAPPOINTING SCHATT & MORGAN #69

I just purchased my first Schatt & Morgan. It was a limited run in smooth Blue Bone. The fit and finish is not what I had expected. The first one I received had a cracked shield which the distributor immediately made right, shipping me another plus a postage paid envelope for the return.

My complaints are that the handles are a poor match...the mark side is significantly lighter than the pile side, there are obvious gaps around the shield, the etching on the tang is double imaged and the etching on the blade is lighter in the middle than the ends.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Derek Wells on January 7, 2016 at 1:25

I share your disappointment Doug. I would have thought the 'dealer' would have personally closely inspected the replacement knife before it was shipped - but obviously not ... or you wouldn't have it. (either that or the 'Dealer' is trying to put one over you)

If you have no joy with the dealer second time round email Queen Cutlery direct. I am certain they are proud of their products and they themselves would be disappointed this was ever shipped from the factory.

Looks to me like a knife that should never have left the factory but somehow (?) slipped through - which happens. Or should have been well marked as a 'second'.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on January 7, 2016 at 5:34

Quite frankly .. I'd send it straight back to Queen.
Just my guess ..but.. bet they'd make it right.

NOTE: I had a similar issue w/ a Case ~ 15 yrs ago.

I pd shipping to them .. with a note enclosed .. explaining situation.

Received a new knife in return.

Became CCC life member same month.

You've a legitimate issue ..&.. It is truly in their best interest.

Just an opinion .. mine.

Permalink Reply by Carl Bradshaw on January 7, 2016 at 6:54

Yeah, 2 bad eggs in a row from the same dealer. I don't know, maybe he's dealing in 2nds. Like mentioned above, I would go through Queen directly to resolve this issue, I'm sure they'll take care of you.

Permalink Reply by John Bamford on January 7, 2016 at 10:11

I would like to buy more Queen knives but I hear a few stories like this . As I pay an extra 30% in taxes on arrival in this country I don't want to send things back and be caught a second time ! I like the interesting steels that Queen uses these days and the designs look really good to me . I have only had one Queen that I couldn't live with and had to return but I just can't afford to take the risk .

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 7, 2016 at 13:00

I contacted Greg at TSA knives this morning. He is sending an envelope so I can return this knife, giving a full refund, and Emailing me with contact info for Queen Cutlery. He made a very valid point in our conversation. Complaining to the distributor is not enough. If the customer doesn't contact the manufacturer concerning quality issues like this, then our voice is not heard. I will be sending a link to this discussion to Queen Cutlery so I'm posting one more picture. I'll update this discussion with any info I receive from Queen. I want to thank everyone for their support.

Permalink Reply by John Bamford on January 7, 2016 at 13:04

That doesn't look good Doug , I would have no doubt that Greg would sort it out for you .

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 10, 2016 at 3:04

This morning the envelope for the return of the #69 came in the mail. Greg from TSA Knives had included one of his Trestle Pine knives in Yellow Birch. A note was included that said, "In an effort to make things right, here's one of my Trestle Pine Knives made by Queen. Like I said, they can do it right when they make an effort." Looking at the knife, I was impressed with the design and quality, not to mention Greg's generosity. I want to thank you Greg, but I have to wonder, if you really wanted to show me how Queen can "get it right", why did you send me a knife with a crack in the handle under the center pin?

Permalink Reply by Derek Wells on January 10, 2016 at 3:34

Doh! Another Homer Simpson Moment .... This 'says' a hell of a lot more, in fact it speaks volumes about TSA's (lack of) customer care & consideration ... than it does about Queen Cutlery.

I have only ever had (in 8 or 9 knives now) one issue with a Queen Cutlery knife that was sub standard .... I "wonder" which US dealer that was from(?)

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on January 10, 2016 at 12:28

I have been following this but have been staying away for a number of reasons. I wanted to see it play out. Before I go any farther I need to disclose 2 things.

1) This is also being discussed here

2) TSA has been my dealer of choice for many many years.

I have often said I prefer a dealer to know me and to know my collection. I like it when a dealer feels comfortable sending me an email that says, you might like something I just got in and it is actually something that fits into my collection, not just what they happened to have gotten in this week.

I prefer a dealer that cares enough about their customer to do something like the above. I have actually learned a lot over the years watching Greg deal with customers. I have learned that sometimes you just send out another knife and hope the one with the issue actually gets returned. LOL, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I AM sorry you have been going through this Doug, I know it can be frustrating.

I am also happy to know that Greg is sharing the info that letting our dealers know is always good but letting the manufacture know an issue straight from the customer is better

Please let us know how it all works out

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 10, 2016 at 13:52

Jan, I agree that the manufacturer should be informed.

Here is the correspondence with Queen concerning the #69

On Thursday, January 7, 2016 11:44 AM,

To: Ken Daniels, CEO of Queen Cutlery and Jennie Moore, Pres,

I recently purchased my first Schatt & Morgan knife from Greg at TSA Knives, a #69 in smooth blue bone with a sheepsfoot blade. It arrived with a cracked shield, and very poor fit and finish around the shield. I contacted Greg, who immediately sent me a return envelope and another knife. I returned the first and kept the second one. On further inspection of the 2nd one, there were so many flaws that I would consider it a factory second. I posted pictures of this knife on IKC, so as to see what other people thought about the condition of the knife. After reading the reactions to the pictures, I contacted Greg at TSA knives this morning. He is sending another return envelope and issuing a full refund. I asked him for your contact information so I could bring this problem directly the source. How is it possible that 2 knives from the same run, with such obvious flaws got past your quality control? I have have heard many collectors comment on the quality, fit and finish of Schatt & Morgan knives. Is this downward trend in quality something that we, as collectors, should expect in the future. Though I am receiving a full refund, I am very disappointed that I won't have that "beautiful" smooth blue bone knife in my collection. I have included a link to the pictures and discussion concerning the #69 below.

Thank You

Doug Webber

As i received no response, 2 days latter, I sent the same letter again but addressed it to more people at Queen

gunner/doug

kdaniels@queencutlery.com jmoore@queencutlery.com rdaniels@queencutlery.com awright@queencutlery.com dmullins@queencutlery.com anottingham@queencutlery.com

Jan 9 at 6:02 PM

Thank You

Doug Webber

I received a response from Ryan Daniels today

rdaniels@queencutlery.com

Today at 9:13 AM

Doug,
I'm sorry for bad experience. This isn't the norm for our product but with the many knives we make and the hand made processing sometimes things can slip through. I'll speak to Greg about your knives returned and take care of things with him. I'm sorry once again. Have a good day.

My response today

On Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:36 AM,

Ryan,

I want to thank you for your response. Yesterday, when I opened the package containing the envelope to return the second #69, I found that Greg had included one of his Trestle Pine knives and the note below. I was impressed with the design and quality of the knife and the generosity of Greg. I believe that with the right to gripe, comes the obligation to compliment. At the end of my busy day, instead of going to bed, I stayed up and took pictures of the Trestle Pine Knife so I could post them, and thank Greg, in the same story on IKC where I had complained about the #69. Fair is Fair. When I started examining the pictures I had taken, prior to posting them, I discovered that the handle of the knife he had sent me ,was cracked under the center pin. What a sour taste that left in my mouth. I am not a long time collector of your products nor a long time customer of TSA knives, but don't I deserve the same attention to detail as they do?

Doug Webber

Permalink Reply by John Bamford on January 10, 2016 at 14:12

What bothers me Doug is that I like the look of Queen's knives so much but don't feel inclined to buy them until I hear a lot fewer of these stories . It wouldn't be so bad if they produced knives that I didn't want to own . If it was Case I wouldn't mind so much , for some reason I have never been caught by Case knives , but Queen well they just look so good and I would like to see the Daniels family do well.

I know that Queen makes a lot of knives and a few bad ones may get out !

On the other hand I can only afford to buy a few knives so can't afford to buy the rogue ones that come out of the Queen factory !!

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 10, 2016 at 14:15

This story is getting more attention than was ever my intention. Greg, at TSA Knives, did send me the 2nd knife without waiting for the first to be returned, he did refund my money before the 2nd knife was returned, and he did send me a free knife in an effort to make things right. I did contact Queen concerning the problem as I know Greg can only sell what he is sent. It has not been my intension to bad mouth anyone. I have tried to present the facts as they occurred. In an effort of full disclosure, this is a message I left on the Schrade Collectors Comment Wall.

Compared to many knife collectors I'm relatively new to the game. I've been collecting Schrades for about 6 years. IKC has enlightened me to the fact that there are other knives than Schrade, good American made knives. What is very disappointing to me, is that I find better fit and finish in 30 year old Schrades than I am encountering in GEC and Queen. I recently paid nearly $100 for a newly manufactured knife that would have barely been qualified as a factory second by Schrades standards. My money was refunded, but this is the third knife I've returned due to quality issues out of eight purchases. Maybe I'm too old and too picky. When I was growing up, I was taught "if you have enough time to go back and fix something, you had enough time to do it right to start with". Perhaps this is a lesson that should be revisited.