Thank you so much for the correction, Schlomo.  I have been under the impression Frost owned the TM.  Glad to hear I was wrong.

I made a minor typo -- Mora is Frosts not Frost.

You want some lovely choppers then check out the Destroyer by Entrek (http://ennis-entrekusa.com/) or the KH/KL by Extrema Ratio (http://www.extremaratioknivesdivision.eu/).

Wow!  We're up to 105 member.  Just a heads up to everyone in the group.  I'll be announcing another knife give away soon.  I'll be announcing in a video on my you tube channel.  I am aware that not everyone can view you tube.  Don't despair.  The you tube video will direct people to join iKC and then join this group where they will need to post the answers to the questions.

The contest will be very similar to the ones done by me in the past.  The questions are very simple and require no research to answer.  Look for the contest in a couple weeks.    It should be fun!

Thanks for the heads-up, Tobias.

Great concept for the contest Tobias!  Thank you for all you do!

Sooo, what do you think

Field and Stream says it is priced at $700.  Way to steep for me.  Hell, you could get a Randall, for that price.  Of course, Randalls don't come in CPM S35VN.  As it is listed on Gerber in the "Hunting" section, the 4" blade is a reasonable length, but IMO it is too short for an all-around "woods" knife.  While the handle looks "pretty", I would sooner have an all Micarta or G-10 handle.  Unless I win the Powerball, I won't be buying one.

Actually you can get two (2) Randalls (http://www.randallknves.com/catalog-models/) for that price since most of their knives are in the $340 to $380 price range.

Part II.  I know it is an old axe to grind, but lots of outdoor folk don't go in the woods without a handgun, depending on the fauna in their area.  Now, most people are right handed.  Exceptions are Tobias and myself.  Nevertheless, I was taught to shoot handgun right-handed, so include me in the "Righties" here.  The handgun will naturally go on the right hip for most everybody - cause they're right-handed, so where does this fancy knife go with its fabulous, hand made, right-handed sheath?  On the left, naturally, but it ain't a left-handed sheath, and I didn't see a left-handed option.  So, after paying $700. for the knife, and sheath that I can't use, I have to spend another $100. for a lefty sheath.  Yeah, you could carry it inverted on your pack strap or harness, but we're talkin hunting knife, not survival knife.

Why not wear it behind your holster -- It isn't as if you'd be using it for attack scenarios when you have a handgun?

Hahaha.  A possibility, Shlomo.  Course, that's where the canteen goes (behind the handgun) a la mil spec., lol.  The old WWII issue Cattaraugus 225-Q & Case 337-Q knives were issued with left handed sheaths.  I like the balance of having a handgun on one hip and a knife on the other, but again, I am left-handed, so it works for me.

I agree on the price point. Did not even think about the right hand carry. I do think marketed right at the sportsmans shows they may well pull this off though. This seems like one of those knives you would have to put into someones hands to sell it

Shlomo, I forgot to mention that sheathing the knife after use - on the right side behind the handgun- is a problem for me.  Not being able to glance at where the knife is going, I might slice off a bit of butt cheek

LOL, Howard do not do that!

I can shoot a pistol righty or lefty but am better with the left hand.  When it comes to revolvers, I can put a right handed holster on my left hp and draw the revolver backwards with no problem.  Not so much with an automatic, especially an M191A1.

As for right handed knife sheaths, I'm used to wearing them on my left hip but when I was in the Army, I wore my MkII fighting knife suspended from the shoulder harness (tip down) and diagonally under my right arm pit..  It kept it dry and provided easy access and allowed my to pull it out properly. I was able to pull it out and replace in the dark with no worries of stabbing or slashing myself despite what looked like an insane place to put a knife.

As for the Gerber Legend -- it looks nice but it is way out of my price range and the steel used is over engineered for my needs.  I understand why some people like high end steels but at the end of the day  my cutting needs are pretty much met with 1095, 1070, 440C and 440A.   And I know it is treated like a pariah by knife folks but even 420 has proved worthwhile for a lot of everyday tasks.  But then you can't sell a  $700 knife using steel of this quality -- or can you?

Lots of custom makers are using 440C and selling them in the $Thousands, Jay Fisher as an example.

That is another thing I have been unable to grasp.  Even 1095 is selling for hundreds of dollars, from "custom" makers.  By now, I figure all the heating and freezing formulas for 1095, for knife use, have been worked out and, ain't no biggie.  I'm thinkin that 1095 from Ka-Bar or Ontario has all the heat-treat process of the "custom" blades, so why pay outrageous prices for 1095, or 440C, 440A, 420, etc.?  I'm stumped.

Well you are paying for the "custom" aspect of the knife -- if I want it 6mm or 10mm thick, I get it; if I want it 250mm long or 80mm long I get it; if I want stag handles, makune bolster and a lanyard hole, I get it.

The steel used, for most users and collectors is immaterial...I love D2 but also like O1 and A2 and if the knife came in any of those I'd be happy but I wouldn't hold out just for the D2.

You're also paying for the reputation of the maker...Loveless charged more because he could...Busse does because he can due to his marketing and his (non)proprietary INFI..

Thanks, Shlomo.  I guess a Ford has most of the running parts of a Lincoln, but not the "custom" trim.  Some folks want Lincolns and some can do with Fords.  I can't argue with the "Lovelesses" of the knife world.  He, and others, design(ed) some great knives.  And, I guess Picasso used the same basic art paint, that unknown artists use, but it's what he did with the materials that make the difference.  I'm just not living at that level.  Still, if practicality is involved, a mass produced knife from a bulk manufacturer, given that their reputation is on the line for heat-treat too, will stay as sharp as a "Picasso" knife.  I am not at the level of buying the "Picasso" knife to sit in a display case.  Intellectually I can understand; practically, not so much.

A lot also goes in the way the blade is heat treated.  Basically, even today not all 1095 is going to be heat treated the same way. 

For instances some makers or companies may heat treat the entire blade  to thew same hardness while others apply different heat treatments to the cutting edge vs. spine.  In most cases, you will want a harder cutting edge so that will retain an edge longer but a tougher spine so that the blade will be stronger and hold up to batoning better.

Some knives that are designed for thrusting and not so much for slashing (bayonets and boot knives) will also be treated differently so that the blade is tougher (meaning it is harder to sharpen) but is less likely to break or nick.

This is why I have have so many problems when people ask what is best steel for a knife. The correct question should be what is the best steel for the task at hand?

Let's face it, if all the knife is going to do is hang on the wall and look pretty, then chrome plated Papier-mâché might be all you need.   And If you're going to go all Rambo and take on half of South East Asia for 20 years, then you might want a super steel comprised of an alphabet soup bowl of letters and numbers! 

This is why one companies 1095 might be better than another companies and this is also why you can't grind down the spine of a blade an actually make a good double edge knife!

What of then companies like Bark River, Zero Tolerance, Extrema Ratio, Entrek, TOPS, Emerson, Strider, Spartan, DPx Hest, Boker, Puma and other high end "commercial" makers whose prices exceed, in some cases far exceed, lots of custom makers?  Forgetting the stupidity of those $700 Cold Steel knives!

As and example, I spent less then $250 each for 14 of my 19 Bob Dozier knives yet I spent more then that for each of 20 of my Entrek knives.  The prior is custom, hand done, the latter not.

I like to think what you are paying for when you buy a handmade knife is the ability of the maker to support himself with his hands. 

Think of the renaissance of craftsmanship that is going on in America with knives, woodworking, pen turning, etc.  Its an amazing thing to see.  If you've ever seen a Bruce Bump knife, then you know that there truly are Master Craftsmen in the here and now. 

While I am no master and no Bruce Bump, I have been able to support myself and my family since a layoff on May 1 2009 with full time knifemaking.  Since then my company has grown, we've moved into a facility seperate from my home, and I now employ 7 folks (including me) at Fiddleback Forge. 

What does that require?  It requires constant revenue, and the prices have to produce profits.  Period.  What I try to do is keep the prices as low as I can so that I can sell to the user market which is bigger.  That means that every time I add a cost, I have to add knives to the week to offset it/him/her.  When I stared full time work, I made 6 knives a week.  Then jumped to ten or 12, then hired folks and nowadays we make 42 knives a week. 

Then you have to be able to sell them.  This is where I got lucky.  I didn't know this back when I was an engineer, but I am very good at marketing and branding.  My knives aren't master works, they are good outdoor tools, but when it comes to branding and marketing, I'm a fish in water. 

Steel types draw certain folks and repel certain folks.  I, personally don't like stainless steels.  Soulless and lifeless and sterile even after years of use.  I also don't like damascus steels because of cold shuts and not knowing what the edge is comprised of.  I prefer good old homogenous 01 steel.  Easiest steel to sharpen and takes a great edge.  Some folks have a prejudice against 440C (undeserved, but true).  Some folks don't ever want rust.  I don't think its the steel that drives the price though.  I think folks are drawn to what they are comfortable using and sharpeining. 

IMO, what you are paying for is keeping Americans working with their hands.  Sure, you can always go get a Mora knife and by God it does everything any of mine will do and cost $295 less.  That extra $ isn't wasted though.  It keeps 7 of us working with our hands, and helps us donate funds to help 3 different kids with horrible medical issues pay their medical bills.  IMO, its money well spent, but then again, I'm kinda biased.

Andy I am going to copy this to another part of iKC also.  You have said in much better words and first hand experience what I have been saying.  Not that I have anything against a good knife made anywhere, but this IS the reason I choose to try for USA made.  It is also what made Donnie and I begin to look at the handmade knives about a year ago

Cool.  Thanks Jan.  Can you send me a link to it?

The problem is that "Made in the USA" does not guarantee you anything including place of manufacture...I've gotten pure, unadulterated, crap with "Made in the USA" emblazoned across the article and packaging.

Many European and Asian companies set up shops in the USA so they can compete for government and other contracts--Beretta, FN, H&K etc. as examples.

Using a knife as an example the company will make the blade, crossguard, bolster and endcap in their European plant, have the scales made in another location, the sheath maybe in Mexico (ala Ka-Bar), the boxes in China and everything sent to a building in some small, depressed town in the South where the company has hired a dozen locals to assemble and package the goods and send them to retailers...They get to put "Made in the USA" on their boxes where only minimum wage was paid to some Americans, paid some state and local utilities and taxes but the whole profits went to the parent company...Is that knife (or whatever) really "Made in the USA"

At least GM/Toyota state on the windscreens of some of their Toyota cars "Assembled in the USA".

Shlomo, I once read that the car with the largest percentage of American made parts is not a Ford or Chevy, but the Toyota Camry.

I do know that my son builds Toyota engines in Huntsville, Alabama.

YOTAS are all i buy..and all i have ever driven..i know nothing about cars at all..just that my YOTAS have never let me down!  THEY RUN FOREVER...all 3 i have had over 200k..and some went months and months without oil changes..as im terrible with taking care of my vehicles...

What are we talking about here? 

Wow, i've been missing some interesting discussion!

Andrew's comment was actually moved to another thread (USA vs. the World)  http://www.iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/usa-versus-the-world-th...

Some residual comments are also showing up here. 

Wow.  Absolutely not what I was writing about. 

No it wasn't, Andrew but as you can see there are parts that can be construed that way.  I think that is why Jan cross-posted it.

Thought this might be germane to the discussion:

German to the discussion?

If we outsource the vast majority of our manufacturing, and we only purchase the ultra cheap products being made overseas, then we can kiss American ingenuity goodbye.

This site is really for discussion of knife of the great ourdoors.  I have another thread that discusses this topic located here.  Please continue the discussion  in the other thread:   a href="http://www.iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/usa-versus-the-world-this-ain-t-soccer-fussball-futbol" target="_blank">http://www.iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/usa-versus-the-world-th...  >

Just a reminder, the "Win These Knives" contest ends on Veteran's day.  If you wish to enter go to this link:

http://iknifecollector.com/group/knives-of-the-great-outdoors-fishe...

Intersting (but long) discussion on bushcraft knives:

And part one of the same interview

I recently bought a little Rough Rider fixed blade and reviewed it in the "Fixed Blade" discussion in this group.   In the past, when I've gone day hiking I've sometimes carried a fixed blade that was around 8-9 inches overall with a 4.5 or five inch blade.  

Considering I've rarely use it for more than notching wood, stripping bark or turning over smal stones, I'm now thinking of carrying a smaller knife such as this 6 3/4 inch fixed blade.  For one thing It'll fit in a pocket easier.   My other thought to wear a neck knife such as a ESSI Izula or TOPS Cheetah.

The reason I'm leaning toward the Rough Rider is it would look less threatening to game wardens and would also cost less to replace if confiscated.

Has anyone else gone small when it comes to carrying a fixed blade?  If so would you care to show the knife and your reasoning for going small.

Here is the Rough Rider Outdoorsman Fixed Blade I intend to carry when wandering in the woods. 

My RR Sidewinder is larger than that, Tobias, but I like to carry it when I am out and about in the woods.  BTW I chopped down that tree with it.

Steve, you are correct, at least when compared to the little Outdoorsman:

While I like the Sidewinder, it is more knife than I need on my day hikes.  Plus as the  name states - it is a Heavy Hunter!

Looking forward to take this recently found big boy out in the woods and making some little sticks out of big sticks.  I've been looking for a machete with a blade profile like this for a few years now - last week I walked into a pawn shop there it was

I just sold this knife after having it a while not knowing anything about it so before I sent it to the new owner I asked him what he knew - bout the same as me - a 1941-1946 Camillus3 5/8" 4 blade scout/camp knife covered in what I call "cracked ice camo" Haven't been able to find another one like it on the internet so I thought Id post a couple pics here before I send it on its merry way.  Comments welcome - thanks!

I had planned on posting a review of the Kabar Hobo knife here but as usual I was too long winded and I exceeded the character limit!   I instead made it ablog post which you can find here.

For those not wishing to read the long winded review the short version is the knife impressed me quite a bit.   I was actually amazed at how well the fork and spoon performed despite thir somewhat small size.   I was even able to eat spaghetti with the fork with no problem.  And the spoon compares well with some of the plastic disposable spoons you get stuck with a fast food joints.

The lock back center mounted knife was also a nice addition.  Unfortunately it wasn't that sharp and will probably need sharpening right out of the box.  The knife also needs some breaking in as it didn't come apart easily at first so you should probably use it for a while before hitting the woods with it!

Still pretty darn impressive for a $25 knife.  Thanks for the knife Jan!  It was a pleasure to review it.  I'd give it a 4.5 out of 5 based on its price point and usability.  Fro more info and more pics see the blog.

The R. Murphy Fisherman's Pal is an old school bait knife.  From their website:

Camping and Fishing Knife: Polished 16 gauge (1.7 mm) high carbon stainless steel 4-1/4 inch (10.8 cm) blade with serrations for scaling and skinning. Bubinga wood handle.  Made In U.S.A

It's an excellent quality utility fish knife at a low price (around $24)

I figured it needed a lanyard  as well as some flash.  Trust me.  Bubinga Wood is extremely hard.  Make sure you have a very sharp, quality drill bit!

Fisrt I drew the fish on painter's tape.  Then i used a very small screwdriver score the wood.   Enamel paint was used to fill the etch.  I'm still doing some minor cleaning, but the smaller flex are nearly invisible to the naked eye.  to I'm not sure if I'm going to do anymore art work.

Good job Tobias!

Thanks Charles.   It was kind of fun and now a basic "no frills" utility knife is a little more personal and not so basic!   Most important to me is actually the lanyard hole!

Just throwing out an idea and figured this is one of the best place to start.  I'm thinking of either forming a group to discuss fishing.  I'm think everything from sharing fishing stories, advice on gear, etc.   Of course  a good chunk would also focus on collecting vintage tackle and knives as well as what you use when you go fishing today.  Would people be interested in such a group?