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USA versus the World. (This ain't Soccer, Fussball, futbol!)

I know several people feel a need to buy only USA made knives. Some worry about the quality of knives made elsewhere. Others say it has to do with buying trusted brands. Still others state it is to save American jobs.

1) Is this embargo on any foreign made knife or just knives made overseas by American owned companies? For instance will you refuse to by a Swiss Army Knife out of Switzerland or Condor knife out of El-Salvador. What about a Boker made in China?

2) If your concern is the quality of steel in the knife, are you aware that many of the knives that are Made in America use steel imported from China. Same goes with many American made automobiles. (you know the ones, those American cars with motors made in Mexico, South Korea, and Canada!)

3) Are you aware that some American knife companies are actually owned by larger corporations that are international in scope and are headquartered overseas?

4) Do you truly believe that any knife made in the USA is better than anything that can be made in China, Pakistan or Bulgaria.

5) Do you believe that raising tariffs to increase the price of foreign made knives sold in the US would actually level the playing field and improve the quality of American knives?

6) If American made knives are superior to knives made in other countries, then why don’t they sell better in the overseas market?

7) Do Germans care as much about where the knife comes from? What about the British, Fins, Dutch, Brazillians, etc. What do you people from other lands think of American made knives compared to those made elsewhere? Better, worse, or about the same?

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 26, 2014 at 9:25

>> I like to think what you are paying for when you buy a handmade knife is the ability of the maker to support himself with his hands.

I’m not sure what this means. If the knife is good and people buy enough of them, then the maker will be able to support himself. But it is not my responsibility to buy a handmade knife simply because a maker wants to support himself. It is the makers job to provide a product that I want at a price I can afford. If the maker (handmade or factory made) cannot do that, then I will need to shop elsewhere. If I can get the same or similar quality product at a lower price, then it make sense to me but the lower priced item regardless of where it was made. This was the primary reason Americans started buying knives Made in the USA in the first place!

>>Think of the renaissance of craftsmanship that is going on in America with knives, woodworking, pen turning, etc. Its an amazing thing to see. If you've ever seen a Bruce Bump knife, then you know that there truly are Master Craftsmen in the here and now.

This is truly inspiring and a good thing.

>>While I am no master and no Bruce Bump, I have been able to support myself and my family since a layoff on May 1 2009 with full time knifemaking. Since then my company has grown, we've moved into a facility seperate from my home, and I now employ 7 folks (including me) at Fiddleback Forge.

This is what makes America Great. You’re not the only person who has opted to go into business for themselves instead of living off the government dole due to the latest economic debacle. My brother in law, a land surveyor in Indiana and Illinois, did the same thing I salute you for your entrepreneurial efforts.

>> What does that require? It requires constant revenue, and the prices have to produce profits. Period. What I try to do is keep the prices as low as I can so that I can sell to the user market which is bigger. That means that every time I add a cost, I have to add knives to the week to offset it/him/her. When I stared full time work, I made 6 knives a week. Then jumped to ten or 12, then hired folks and nowadays we make 42 knives a week.

As you said prices have to produce profits. And this is specifically why so many companies, especially larger companies moved production off shore! Between unfriendly corporate taxes and ever increasing labor costs some companies had no option but to move production overseas. The other option was to close their doors and put even more Americans out of work! Unfortunately, for many companies, option two became a reality.

>> IMO, what you are paying for is keeping Americans working with their hands. Sure, you can always go get a Mora knife and by God it does everything any of mine will do and cost $295 less. That extra $ isn't wasted though. It keeps 7 of us working with our hands, and helps us donate funds to help 3 different kids with horrible medical issues pay their medical bills. IMO, its money well spent, but then again, I'm kinda biased.

Perhaps you are keeping Americans working with their hands but not all Americans have the skills to do this? I know a person at the local flea market who currently owns two stall where he sells knives three days a week. He employs six people to operate the booths and his wife does the ordering for him. A third booth that he owns sells paintball guns. That booth also employs three employees. Most of the stuff he sells is made off shore but he can get you any knife that you can get you just about factory produced knife. If you want a Case, a Buck, or a TOPS, he can order for you. His prices are comparable to Knife Country USA and Sword Demon.

He wishes he could sell more of the high end knives, but it isn’t what his clientele wants. In short, he is also helping several people put food on the table, as well. Is he a bad person because he sells off shore merchandise? I don’t think so.

You said I can always go get a Mora knife and it will do everything yours does but cost $295 less. Or I can get a Rough Rider or a Condor for probalby even less money and it will meet my needs. And the money I save by buying a less expensive knife will also not be wasted! I will use it to support my family and will give to charities I support.

And as I’m buying these knives from stores here in America, I’m also helping another American make a living, an American who may not be skilled craftsman but an American just the same.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on September 26, 2014 at 13:40

Also good points Tobias. So from where I stand I still see buying quality USA as a first option for our collection because that is our choice. But as we are involved as an international community and the point of supporting knife collecting is to support it as a whole.... we actually buy world wide. To Hogs point, I would not buy a knife for an iKC member that I would not carry myself. If I cannot believe in the quality of the item, I cannot pass the item along.

OK unless it is Tobias's passalong knife LOL

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 26, 2014 at 13:53

While I'ma firm beleiver in Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware), I would never sell a pass-along knife, even is someone else made them for the purpose of selling! I do have standards!

If my pass-along knives were food, they'd be the hotdogs you find on that roller thing at the gas station around 3 in the morning

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on September 26, 2014 at 14:46

LOL and they would be branded 3am hotdog!

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Roy on September 29, 2014 at 13:55

Folks can make whatever choices they want with their money. BUT, if they wake up one day after buying cheap mass produced knives their whole lives and they find that no-one knows how to make knives by hand anymore, then they can't be grumpy about it. They chose not to support those specialists. Its their fault! If you want the skill to be there, then you have to support some maker's work. Or don't, there are plenty of Rough Rider knives out there. BUT, there is nothing special about owning one. No pride in it what so ever. I wouldn't waste my time sharpening one, just toss it and buy another. This is the culture folks complain about, then support, and complain about folks really spending time learning important skills and charging a fair $ for them. Will the RR cut as well. Maybe, but by buying it, you have chosen to let the skill to do it by hand die out. The maker isn't culpable because he can't sell his work for $5, the consumer is culpable.

Actually IMO its not much different buying knives from hobbyists that don't charge for their labor. If thats what folks choose every time, then the profitable makers will go the way of the dinosaur, and so will the skill. And so will the innovation for that matter. You can't get young folks to choose this as a career if they can make 10x the $ at Wendy's. If there isn't profit in it, it will die. For any industry to thrive, folks have to support it. That costs money whether folks like it or not.

So what do you get for your $ when you buy a handmade knife? You get the ability of the maker to support and develop that skill. Hopefully you look forward to watching that skill develop over time and buy an even better knife from them down the road. And, hopefully you also got a good cutter that you're proud to own. Bob Jones used to say, "Life is too short to carry an ugly knife." When my grandad died, he had an old Case knife in his pocket with real bone scales. I still have it and I'm glad it was a quality knife.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 29, 2014 at 14:45

Andrew, this isn't an attack on truly hand made, partially hand-made or simply factory made. I'm glad you take pride in you work and I can appreciate a well made hand crafted knife. However, I can't afford them. And while I can understand where you're coming from, I'm very proud to own and carry my Camillus Mk II Fighting knife. It may have been factory made, it is my factory made knife and we've been through a lot together. Same goes for several other knives I own, some of them that as you said "you wouldn't waste time sharpening." And as you might many weren't made in the USA.

Sorry if I struck a raw nerve, This wasn't my intention. I 100% agree that hand making a knife is a skill that needs to survive and thrive!

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Roy on September 29, 2014 at 15:22

No big deal Tobias, I'm not upset, sorry if I came off that way. Precious few minutes to type in a knife shop. I love the Camillus MkII. Thats a great knife. I carried a Kabar USMC for my entire boyhood. I wasn't trying to say factory was bad. But the real difference from a handmade is that your money supported the continuation of the skill. That and pride of ownership is the only difference between my work and Mora knives.

I don't necessarily buy 'made in the USA' every time either. Its hardly possible anymore anyway. I once worked for an importer that brought over iron castings from China. They made them to our customers specs. Most of the problems we encountered were with the specs, not the manufacturer. They orderd them cheaply made, then continually complained about them. Such is life.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 29, 2014 at 15:51

What I find disingenuous and annoying are the so called "Hand Made" knives that are actually mass produced piece of junk damascus slapped together by some poor schmuck living in a shack in Pakistan.

These often have some kind of "damascus" blade that is actually nothing more than a wire cable that has been heated up and hammered flat and the cut out to resemble a knife blade. All of this done on a massive scale The blades are turned out in the thousands. Camel bone is batched dyed and cut out a in the same fashion. Next a couple hundred people getting paid squat "nad make these knives by slapping on a little glue on the scales and pin it all together.

It is then sold as "hand made" but it reality it is no more hand made than a Knife you buy from Case or Victorinox. However, the quality is no where near what you find in a modern factory made knife with actual quality control and product oversight.

If it is a folder, you're not going to want the carry it in your pocket on a hot sweaty day because your sweat will make the dye from the unstabilized camel bone bleed all over your leg and into the fabric of your pants and the blade will rust!

But hey it will look awesome when it arrives! Too bad you can't give feedback on eBay after having the knife for a year or so!

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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on September 30, 2014 at 0:05

Actually, in general (with a few exception) they look terrible. To me it often seems like people from that industry have a tendency to slap any embellishment they can think of on the knives and the end result if often hideous

But that's just my personal taste.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Roy on September 30, 2014 at 6:06

I had a fellow in England steal one of my designs and begin having it made in Pakistan. He had the nerve to e-mail me to ask for a picture of the sheath. Ha. I barely got him to stop before anything but the samples were made. I wouldn't have known if he'd have just designed the sheath himself...