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440 or 1095?

Help,

I see these two listed on allot of knife blade write ups. I see a variety of different materials listed in knife write ups and not sure what is better or what to stay away from.

any help? The 1095 I see on many GEC knives.

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 2, 2011 at 13:36

Well boys, ya'll lost this old cajun. I'll just sit back and listen.

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Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 2, 2011 at 13:45

No worries Robert, I'm just trying to get across to Dale which method is the most useful for something like a knife. To me it's quite obvious that the machinists approach of work-harden will have but one end to it; failure of the molecular structure, in other words a destroyed steel.

That works with easily replaceable steel but would we really want to do that with a high-end knife?

Something like that will never happen with age-hardening, personally I have never seen any knife maker whack his hammer at a finished craft of HRC 64 steel. The force from said compression would be negative and in turn destroy it completely.

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 2, 2011 at 13:55

How does the hammer forgeing of coal fired high carbon steels the way I like it, say like from Matt L or one of the other Coal forgers play out into this discussion?

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Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 2, 2011 at 14:09

I'm not 100% of the way he quenches and which temperatures he forges at so I can't say for sure. The method that yields the best crystal structure is water quenching though but oil is much easier and more forgiving.

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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on May 2, 2011 at 15:10

Fellows,

I hope that we're not confusing Donald.

While all the answers have been correct, I think that what he really wanted to know was that "440" is a stainless steel and that "1095" is a carbon steel which is prone to rust and oxidation.

Just a thought...

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 2, 2011 at 18:07

I'm with JJ. Thats alot of great information but the bottom line is 1095 is carbon steel and 440 is stainless. Simply put Donald, It depends on how much effort you want to put into maintaining. While Donnie and I prefer 1095, it does require a little more care because it is more prone to rust if not cared for. Now in our case, wiping them and putting a few drops of rem oil before they go into the safe or into use is a labor of love. Properly cared for 1095 will last a lifetime. We have some over 100 years old with no "signs" of rusting. Stainless is a little less labor to keep the blade luster but it wont produce the patina or blade color the 1095 will have with age. Personal preferences Donald, the best way I can tell to arrive at which one works for you, own both up front and give it a few months to see how you feel about how the aging process and maintenece works for YOU. I sure hope this helps

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 2, 2011 at 20:23

If I started a production knife company, I would have the knives made in either 440c stainless or 1095 carbon steels. Opps...I think some body done beat me to it....Darn!

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on May 2, 2011 at 22:18

O0oops .. I think Hal & I kinda got off on our own little tangent there .. and lost touch with both the original question AND our audience ... O000ps

BUT ... Hal ‘n I were having some fun there ... ‘n hopefully posting some useful info !?!?! .. but strayed a lil off topic.

Sorry Donald .. as I think we've all universally agreed .. you'll do just fine with a nice tempered piece of .......

1095 ... or... 440C

High Carbon ….. or… Stainless Steel

Halicon said:

... you aren't mentioning all elements that are produced in the reaction ... so like you say Dale, let's have some fun!

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 3, 2011 at 7:29

D ale, I enjoyed it, as you say "all in fun".

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Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 3, 2011 at 10:51

I don't quite understand why everyone is so intent on keeping this on-topic since the creator got his question in the very first few posts and haven't shown any interest thereafter. Apologies for the ones Dale and I confused though.

There's no argument of the kind between me and Dale but rather I was sharing my view of steel and he was sharing his.

The difference was however that I knew about the machinist approach of creating tension in a steel by compression and I wanted to help him understand my view with cold-forged steel and that you can't work-harden a steel that has such a refined crystallized structure already after the quenching.

What I wrote came straight out of the book "The craft of the Japanese sword" by Yoshindo Yoshihara, Leon and Hiroko Kapp. A great book that gives you a fantastic view into the traditional forging they do in Asia.

I can't take any credit for their fantastic work in this book, it has helped me many times when I were in a stand-still and not knowing which path to take.

So for everyone that thought that Dale and I were measuring our knowledge against each other , while it was very off-topic what I wrote was intended as an educational text and not as an argument whatsoever, I hope it will be absorbed as such and not misunderstood as something else.

I believe Dale wanted to "rile" things up and create some interest in steel's molecular science just as much as I did :)

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on May 3, 2011 at 13:41

.. it does spur conversation !!

.... & gets some info out there.

.... this is a good link here... allows one to identify a steel by its many many different monikers. 440B can be marketed under a # of different names .......

Halicon said: