Thank you for the review, Tobias.

I have heard great things about that little Turtle Man, knife. Great review, Tobias.

I like them both - if you twisted my arm and made me choose - I guess it would be the Sidewinder.

The palm swell on the Turtleman feels really good in my hand.  On the other hand, the finger grooving on the the Sidewinder keeps your had away from the blade making it more difficult to choke up on the blade for some detail and skinning work.  It is also a much heftier handle. I'll take some side by side photos of the two tonight for a better comparison.

Great review and comparison, Toby!

I kept bouncing back and forth between the two pictures, making mental notes about the visual differences--likes and dislikes--and finally came to the conclusion that I would have to get them both rather than pick one over the other.

The TML gets a bump for having a lanyard hole--I love lanyards! But, the HHS gets a bump for having finger grooves and a beefier handle--I'm a big guy and I like a big, beefy grip! 

At their respective price points either one would make a great entry level knife for someone on a budget.

Thanks for a great review, Toby!

I think this would be a good time to review my test of the Sidewinder.  It can be seen at this link.

http://www.iknifecollector.com/group/roughridercollectors/forum/top...

I have not had an opportunity to try out the Turtleman  so can't say more than it looks like a good knife.  I do like the RR a lot.  I will admit that it is far from the ideal tool for chopping down trees but my test shows it could be done if necessary.

A few more pictures.  Below are side by side comparisons of the Turtle Man, the Heavy Hunter, and Colt's CT7z Serengeti Skinner. I've included the Colt knife because of comments made by Ron. Ron liked the lanyrad hole of the turtle Man but appreciated the Beefy handle of the Heavy Hunter.  The while the Serengeti Skinner only has one finger groove it had a nice beefy handle with a lanyard hole.  It also has an interesting gut hook blade geometry. 

A liitle more on the Serengeti Skinner.   Colt has made the knife with three different types of wood handles; Burl Wood, Pakkawood, and Zebra Wood.  All are essentially the same knife.  The number is CT 7.  The Zebrawood model is CT 7 Z.   Zebra Wood is an extremely had African wood.   In pictures, the knife appears some what small and with a blde under 5 inches it does sound line this would be the case.  NOT SO!  At the thickest part of the palm swell on the handle it measures 3/4 of in inch by about 1 inch.   Below are a couple size comparison photos with two well known knives, the Air Force Survival knife and a 4 1/8 Standard trapper.

As you can see that first finger groove is not for people with small hands! It is easily a full inch, maybe more.

Here are the specs.

The main drawback of the knife is if you have small hands it isn't going to be comfortable to hold; especially when choking up and placing thun or finger on the spine.  Despite this, the knife has a good balance.

I also have a few problems with the sheath.  It looks pretty good but I'm suspicions of the quality of the leather and how long it will last. It is thick enough but it will need a lot of conditioning. Typical of the leather sheaths out of Pakistan and China.  Also I'm not thrilled with the belt loop.  It is too small for a wide belt like a Army web belt.  

I see some modifications of the sheath if I decide to carry this stubby monster.  I wish they make a non guthook version of this puppy.

Boy! "Stubby Monster" is right!

In your side-by-side pictures with the RR & TM knives this Colt looks like a behemoth! Even compared to the Air Force survival knife it looks HUGE! And, I'm with you, Toby, when you say you wish they made one without the gut hook. Since I'm no longer hunting I would have no need for a gut hook.

Hmmm...?

Going back and looking at the pictures, again, I am still not sure what to think about this Colt's size? Either it really is a MONSTER knife, size-wise, or the other two knives--Rough Rider & Turtle Man--are actually MUCH smaller than I originally thought they were?

Would it be possible for you to take a side-by-side pic of the AF survival knife and the Rough Rider, Toby? At least then I would have a pretty good idea of how big the RR really is because I know how big those old Ka-bar/Camillus knives are.

Oh! Before I forget...another great write-up and review! I think you need a promotion and a raise!

Cheers, my friend...

You've got a good point, Brad.  For me, the price point is always essential to the review of the knife. The build quality on all of the knives was exceptional and the steel is as good as what you find in your run of the mill Bucks (420HC) and Case's  nondescript Tru-sharp surgical steel.  It really comes down to a few things.

1) how important is it that the knife be American Made

2) Brand loyalty

3) Will this steel work for for your needs

4) is this a style knife that you want.

Hi Ron.  You asked for a pic showing the Sidewinder next to the Air forces Survival knife and Marine Combat knife..

Here ya go, my Camillus Mk 2 , the Sidewinder, and Ontario's 499 AF survival

I find it easier to grip the Camillus.

Great review. I have 1 of the AF survival Knives that is an awesome knife and a K-Bar mini which is also a great knife. This review has definetly made my mind up to add these 2 knives to the collection

Tobias, does that Ontario 499 have a sheath with it? That knife looks neat, I would like to add one to my collection as well as Jason. I have the others, I'll be keeping my eyes open.

Hi Ken,

Yes the Ontario 499 (the Air Force Survival Knife or Navy Jet Pilot Knife)  has a sheath.  I have a problem with the sheath as it does not fit a web belt (Never has!)   The newer cersion of the steel plates on the bottom --front and back.  It has always been buff or all natural leather color.  they usually darken from aging and oiling.

It is one of my forgotten children.  I need to take some newer photos of it! Below is one of the few photos showing the sheath.

Tobias, Is that Sidewinder a RR?? I have an AF Survival knife - mine is Camillus. Is the Ontario knife for the Canadian AF or ours.?

My AF knife is identical but it was an Australian issue

Ken, the Sidewinder is  a RR.  It is the one I chopped down a three inch tree with.

http://www.iknifecollector.com/group/roughridercollectors/forum/top...

OK, yes I remember your experiment. It is a nice looking knife. I am going to SMKW next month and may just get one.

Those AF Survival knives all look a lot alike.

AF Survival Knife:  Hint:  (to those who don't have one) You will break the small, included, sharpening stone soon after you begin using the knife, but DMT makes small (2.75") "stones" that will fit the pocket.  But, only one "stone" will fit so you have to choose only one grit to have with the knife.

My question:  I occasionally use Red Wing Boot Oil on the stacked leather handle to keep the stacked leather from drying out.  Should I melt some beeswax into the leather instead?

Oh, hey, is the number stamped into the side of the butt of the Ontario AF Survival knife the month and year of manufacture?

Ken and Howard,  The Ontario is made for the US Military.  Mine indeed has the month/Year of manufacture as well as OKC stemped into the pommel

 The new version is known as the ASEK.  The Ontario Knife Company is located in Naples, New York.  It takes it name from Ontario County, New York.  They have been around since 1889.  At one time they also owned Queen Cutlery.  After the demise of the Camillus, they took over the military contract. (They had made also had previous military contracts but were normally overshadowed by other knife makers.) The also own the Old Hickory line of kitchen/agricultural knives.

ASEK stands for Aircrew Survival Egress Knife.    The pomel/grip/guard are molded from one piece of high impact insulated FRN handle.  The saw blade will cut through aluminum siding or acrylic glass.  The pommel cap is also a glass breaker.  The sharpening stone was replaced with a belt cutter with a diamond impregnated sharpening rod. The sheath has thigh straps is jump certified and is  Molle compatible.

Howard,  as for the beeswax,  that is a question for someone else.  I've been real happy using Mink Oil. Been using it well over 30 years and it seems to have been fine by me.  I'm sure others will argue the contrary. 

The only problem is getting the oil out of the mink.  Their feisty little fellas.

Hahahaha.  Think how hard it is to get oil out of castors, Tobias!  Thanks for the background on Ontario.  When I visited Ontario Knives a couple years ago the factory was in Franklinville, NY, Cattaraugus County.

I don't know ifin I want one of them new ASEKs.  They sho is ugly, and at my age I ain't gonna be jumpin out of a C-130 and cuttin chute cords with the tool.

I never did see any reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!  LOL

Howard is right about the location of OKC.  The company moved at some point during its history.  The ASEK is sort of new take on an old school blade.  I prefer stacked leather.  And 100 mile and hour tape makes any knife jump certified.

Charles, pilots don't jump out of perfectly good planes. Matter fact the plane needs to be falling apart and burning up before they'll jump!   Now as for a reason to jump from a perfectly good plane: I usually go with  "so you can be where the enemy least expects you for the purpose of killing them so they don't kill you" 

Charles Sample said: 

"I never did see any reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!  LOL"

To which, I would reply:

$55 a month Jump Pay and authorization to wear highly polished, bloused, Corcoran Jump Boots and shiny silver Jump Wings with my Class A uniform was all the incentive that I needed! Oh, yeah! And that Screaming Eagle on my shoulder, also!

Currahee!

So did you get just a little peeved when the 101st became "Air Assault" instead of "Airborne" Ron?

Ron and Tobias, I was just joking, my wife would say I was being persnickety! LOL  Ron, I appreciate your service, thank you for it.  And Tobias, I realize the reason and need for paratroops.  We owe all of our service men and women far more than we can ever repay.

Ron, you guys have more courage than me.  I don't think I could look out that airplane door and jump.  I was never in the military so the question never came up.  The only uniform I ever wore was a police uniform. 

Charles, to be honest I don't think I ever got a chance to look out the door before jumping.  Ron was an actual paratrooper so he might have had that opportunity a time or two.  The closest chance I got to "standing in the door and enjoying the scenery was when the  Jump Master grabbed the back of my 'chute pulled me back from the door took a peak and screamed "you're good" and pushed me out of a C141.  He was just checking to see if were over the Georgia Pines, yet.  That was my second jump.   Black Hats  (NCOs who do the training) can be a lot of fun when you're in jump school.    Thanks you for your service as well, Charles.  It ain't easy being a police officer.

Charles, I know that you were only joking. I seem to recall hearing the same sentiment that you expressed a few times in the past. (Hmm...perhaps only a million times!) lol 

And, Toby! Yes, In some respects I suppose that I was just a little bit peeved when they were reduced to Air Assault. But, at the same, time I understood the reasoning behind it. Plus, I had already been a civilian for quite a while by the time that happened. So, that took some of the sting out of it. 

Howard, I know Franklinville fairly well, I farmed not far from there, never knew there was a knife factory there.