I really like the look of the handle and the blade angle on the ESEE knife. It looks like a good, comfortable working knife. Can't say much about the color; but, that's secondary in anyone's book for a tool.
Hope you like it, Steve. I figured a fixed blade would be the best choice for you. You guys do a lot of work around here, and it's nice to be able to give something back. I hope all the staff enjoy their treats. Thank you Jan, J.J. and Hog for all the awesome work you guys do around here.
I was quite impressed with the fit and finish on his knives. Not so much on the edgeholding front. But if you don't mind sharpening too much then they're not too bad for general use.
HUNTSMAN SPECIAL JAPAN HUNTER, BLACK COMPOSITION SCALES, BLADE Length:5 1/2 Inches and 11 Inches long, Tang Stamps, "THE HUNTSMAN SPECIAL 440 STAINLESS JAPAN", THE SHEATH IS MARKED MX4 MAXAM TOP GRAIN LEATHER MADE IN USA, $5.50
Buck knives are great knives. I have my first folder lock-back from 35 years ago. A good fix blade takes different shapes from one manly man to another. I saw the gearpatrol.com of which Ms. Data, thanks for that young lady, had posted. Some of the knives are great tools. My top ten fix blades to be used in the bush or woods would be a knife with a blade of 4.5 inches to 8.0 inches, with sufficient weight to be used as a chopping tool. Serration is not something I would want in my survival knife but a good sharp blade.
I just returned from the mountains backpacking and fishing. I tool my Leatherman Wave and in my backpack I had my Pro-Tech Brend #1 Combat knife. The Brend #1 Combat has a 7", .225 thick 154-CM Stainless Steel blade. This knife will do the job.
I like your choice Alexander. I have a fix blade which is very much like yours but made by Jantz Supply of Davis, OK. Keep us posted on the outcome of your testing. Thanks for the photo and post.
It kills me (as an aspiring knife maker myself) that some folks can put out a quality product and do so at such a low price point! I love it as a collector/consumer but not as a knife maker however. These folks are practically giving the knives away once you consider the material costs and the labor involved to make and assemble all of it. I'll never make a profit as a knife maker! lol!!! Guess that I'll have to learn how to speed up my production and streamline my models to tailor them to mass production if I want to compete or be content making knives for a different user group - or I'll just keep making knives just as a hobby - one that with which I occasionally make a sale to at least break even or make a slight profit. Better keep my day job I guess!!!
Boy do I understand that!! It just kills Donnie when I start wanting to buy a fixed blade LOL! I have waited for these to come out because of the uniqueness of them and because of the costs. You just cannot beat it.
Aint that the truth! I hope (as a maker speaking) that the firesteel doesn't come with it too?! Unless these knives are made in Asia somewhere I don't see how they can come close to making a profit off of them, but they seem to be a great deal for buyers! Their economy must be in mass production. I just can't figure out how they do it though. It would take me an hour or three to make the sheath and at least 4-6 hours to make the knife at a minimum. My grinds wouldn't be anywhere near as good as theirs though. Throw in etching the blades, sharpening them, stamping the leather sheaths, etc....Are these knives hand forged or done by stock removal? Whatever the case they are excellent buys!!! I'll get off my soapbox now! Hahaha!
They are stock removals Tom, made right here in the USA. The firesteel is an add on (still under 100). Greg went about this knife in a way to keep the cost low. He found his own woods, had them stabilized, cut the scales to size himself and shipped out to the maker. He truly wanted these knives to hit at under 100 and be quality. He did well !!
I see...Well you are right, Greg did a great job!!! Looks like they will be great users, EDC's or collector's. But at that price you might as well use the heck out of it and save the wear and tear on your more expensive pieces. I want one now! But my knife making list still has a bunch of stuff on it - kydex sheath making setup and some stencils for my etching machine. Plus I've got about 30 knife blanks that need to go to heat treat if I can ever get them finalized! I'll have to tell Santa about these/add them to my Christmas list!
Tom I completely agree with everything you've said. But keep in mind, these are production blades. Which means that they're probably water jetted/laser cut/bandsaw cut to profile. Which takes only seconds per blade. The steel cost (1095 is cheap) is negligable as is the heat treat when you do it in large batches.
Drilling holes for handles can be automated quite cheaply at any big machinepark and can be done very quickly.
Most time consuming is the grind (assuming that they do that by hand) and making the scales.
Sheathmaking also takes a LOT less time when you have all your leather machincut and stitched on a machine.
Seriously....with all those resources...I bet I could make a bunch of knives and spend less than 1 hour on each of them.
You'd have to do it in large batches though to spread out the cost of using expensive machinery but when done in that way I bet the actual cost per knife is <$30 in machines and material leaving a nice margin to make a profit.
If I were to make knives like this with a sheath it would cost me around 4-7 hours (very rough estimate) a piece. Depending on how many I'd have to make in a batch and depending on whether I'd have to include sheaths. Which means I'd make roughly $10 an hour........which is...ok. I guess....but not great like you said.
Advantage on what I'd make would probably be in: A nicer blade finish...(I can do a nice hand-satin finish in that time) a slightly better heat treat (I don't have to worry about 500 blades going wrong in one heat treat cycle so I can take more risk in my heat treat) and a thinner grind (Same argument as the heat treat.)
Tom, Alexander covered every area except one. The knives are all the same pattern. That makes blanking and rough handle preparation a whole lot easier. It is also very likely that the blades are machine ground. Jim
I'm a bit late on this Jeremy, but I was recently given an old (1967-1972) Buck 120. I think in those years, the 120 was made from 440C. I read that Buck switched to 425 in the '80s, and 420HC in the '90s. This one has seen some use, but is still in great shape. I haven't used it yet, myself,
Anyone have one of A.G. Russell's Shopmade California Bowies? Been looking at them longingly for some time now, and the more I look at them, the more I like them. I do like 154CM steel.
Yeah I like those too. In fact I love the look of most of A.G. Russell's shopmade line. Even more since I've had a tour of the shop and met Perry (whom I assume is) the current knifemaker in the A.G. Russell shop.
You both bring up some excellent points, many of which I hadn't given much thought to. I figured that the maker had to be doing some things in a more automated fashion or farming some things out to get prices that low though.
Howard, yeah I was lucky enough to be A.G. and Goldie's guest for a week back in 2012. Seriously...if you EVER get the chance to just visit the store and chat with A.G. (or Goldie or anyone else in the store for that matter) you'll create a memory for a lifetime.
Well Alexander, I'd better get a move on. Neither A.G. nor I are getting any younger. Here's a pic for those who have not seen the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie (154 CM steel): This seems to be a new one, with Norway Spruce cone resin handles/scales.
Clint, A.G. Russell sells this shopmade bowie in five different handle materials. Mostly exotic woods, and this spruce cone resin handle. Not inexpensive at $395., but big knives aren't cheap these days. And this much 154CM steel (8.5" blade length/1.25" wide) is bound to be a bit expensive. Will let you guys know if I can pry my wallet open enough to get this knife. Hey, it's a new month.
Hahaha, Yeah those california bowies are awe inspiring. I've wondered the possibility of buying one myself...but then I realise I spent everything on steel and supplies and just let it go.
Somebody, talk me out of buying the Bark River Bravo 1.5 [blade length: just under 6"] in S35VN steel.
Now, wait a minute. I can get it in "Field" version - no thumb ramp, Spear Point, as is shown in the pic, (not the standard blade shape), and in a canvas Micarta color I can live with (not the black in the pic), all for no additional charge.
I already have a Bark River Bravo 1 in A-2 steel, and other fixed blades in CPM-3V, S30V, INFI, San Mai, etc.
Exactly my dilemma, Alexander. I just happened on a site that offered options for blade shape, and removing the thumb ramp.
I pulled up a query on Bladeforums, and apparently the latest news on S35VN was from 2011, and back then, what seemed to be high-powered Bladeforum members were not fond of S35VN as configured by Spyderco in their Mule Team knife. Mule Team or MT is apparently their choice for making knives with new steel. It's a skeletonized, no frills knife so folks can try a new steel in the market without spending gobs of money.
Anyway, back in 2011 the thin-bladed little Spyderco fixed-blade in S35VN did not do well on the sisal rope test - very disappointing performance. The Bladeforum powerhouses were up in arms about it, and put it off on manufacturing hype to save production costs over S30V, which is harder on stamping, and grinding machines due to its hardness. S35VN was advertised as being "better" than S30V, but easier to work with by the manufacturer, and easier to sharpen for the user. So, after the thin-bladed Mule (Mule Team) knife "failed", the consensus, back in 2011, was that CPM was putting one over on the user so the manufacturer could save money on stampers and grinders. That S35VN, while more "stainless" than S30V, wasn't a better knife steel - at least in small knives. There was some allowance that in a beefier knife, S35VN would prove to be an admirable steel. Part of the complaint centered on Rockwell hardness. Most of the Bladeforum guys wanted S35VN hardness to be at least 60, while the MT knife came out at about 56-58. Most allowed as how manufacturers would figure out the optimum hardness to get superior performance from S35VN.
Shift to today (2015), and Bark River indicates that their Bravo 1.5s hardness range goes up to 60, which I think means that if they tested every Bark River Bravo 1.5 some would test at 58 and some would test at 61 - the old + or - thing.
I couldn't find any 2015 reviews of S35VN performance or any performance tests on specifically Bark River knives in S35VN steel. Been thinking that I would give it a try, but like the A.G. Russell shopmade Bowie, "trying" either one isn't cheap, and to me, you have to use blades to find out if they are any good, so collector value goes up in smoke.
In review, I haven't been able to pry my wallet open for the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie, and now with this Bark River Bravo 1.5 in the mix, I don't know which to choose, and even if I chose, both are expensive.
Howard I agree, at that cost losing the collector value is a huge hit. I would be more likely to field test a KaBar Snake charmer at an average of less than 75 to decide if I was going to invest 300-400. Now don't get me wrong...I love a Barkie and this one is sweet! I just don't know enough about the steel to drop that much $ to find out about it
Thanks, Jan. I took a look at the Ka-Bar options for S35VN. The little Snake Charmer is a bit small for me, and I am looking for a hard use, or EDC knife with some bulk. The Ka-Bar Big Boss is more suitable for me, although it comes in at a bare minimum of 4.5" blade length, and with a false edge on the spine, it wouldn't be the best style for batoning. Still, it's a nice looking knife, and is less expensive than the Bark River Bravo 1.5.
Actually, looking around for knives other than Bark River in S35VN steel I saw several that put the Bark River on the low end of the price scale! Spartan Blades at $425., Koenig at $350., and White River at $299. Of course, the old adage about buying 2 to use 1 gets a bit rough on the more expensive blades.
Howard, my personal dillemma is not so much whether the steel is any good.
(The grind on a blade has a lot more impact on performance (as long as the steel is at least decent) than the steel type used. You only have to check Jim Ankerson's test results for that, just compare the way the standard Manix performed in a supersteel versus how it performed with a regrind)
But more that of not wanting to pay custom/handmade level prices for what is essentially a production blade. That's indeed NOT a cheap knife. It is however kind of a simple knife (unlike the Shopmake Bowie which is a lot more complex in it's build).
I'm not saying the knife isn't worth the price. But it isn't worth it to ME. There are quite a few makers who would be willing to make you a similarly sized blade completely to your specs at that price.
In the end....it's all a matter of what you're wanting it for. I don't know if I'd be willing to pay THAT much extra just for S35Vn. Compared to say...a 440C blade, or a 52100 steel blade.
Like I said...I really like the Barkies...I'm just not willing to spend that much on fixed blades in unless they're true custom work. (It's why I made myself an M390 blade instead of buying the Bark River bolstered essential that I've been lusting over ever since it came out.)
If I had to pick between the BRK and the AGR and the KABAR that you just listed my choices would be as followed by different motivations:
For use and trying out the steel: the Ka-Bar
For the nicest knife: The shopmade Bowie by A.G.R.
For most collectible: The BRK Bravo 1.5 (Although I prefer the look of the Ramped one)
Also....for a big blade...I don't know if S35Vn would be my choice. Stainless steels can be very suitable for a big blade...but S35Vn is (especially at Hrc60 or higher) isn't really geared towards that.
Hahahahaha. Well, of course you built your own M390 (great steel) blade, Alexander. I guess I could tackle knife building, but the learning curve is too great, and I would like a knife finished in my lifetime, the end of which is in view (statistically). Johnny Cash sang a song about a similar situation, called "One Piece At A Time".
Custom builders: The few names I know have long since passed my price range.
I can well understand your point of view as a knifemaker. There is little reason to pay big bucks for a knife you could build yourself. From my perspective, the knife, whatever it is, is right there, already built, and is a credit card transaction away. My hands hands don't get dirty, and I don't sweat near as much paying for it as I would making it. (Been watching History Channel's "Forged In Fire" knife making challenge)
Your professional thoughts are most welcome, and I agree that the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie is a fine piece of work. Considering Dietmar Kressler or even Randall blades, this Bark River Bravo 1.5 is priced at $243., and the A.G. Russell is $395. - both high, but not outrageous. As you suggest, the Ka-Bar Big Boss at about $146., although a different blade geometry than the Bark River, would give me an opportunity to try S35VN for various tasks.
Your comments are very important to me, and I will continue to mull them over.
Good question Smith. I look forward to someone who has the experience in forging fix blade knives.
I have a friend who grew up and lives in Colorado. He owns and overseas the Taylor Trading Post in Taylor Park Colorado. His name is Bruce Cranor. His father, Sherm Cranor was the one built most of the cabins there, with his own bare hands.
Sherm Cranor use to stay behind after his family left for the winter to cut blocks of ice out of Taylor lake. He would take the ice to their ice house and pack in sawdust. When fishing season opened up they would deliver the blocks of ice to the icebox (for you youngsters this is how you keep you mike cool) on everyone's front porch. The cabins were heated by wood burning stoves which you cooked on as well.
When he would hunt deer and elk for meat, he only took a pocket knife to clean them. One day it was late and snowing heavily. They had just shot an elk. Sherm was in a hurry to clean this elk and get it back to the house. Bruce, his son, told me his dad pulled out his Old Timer and jabbed it into the elk. With arms the size of a big man's thighs, Sherm cut upward so fast it broke the Old Timer blade backwards. This being the only knife they had, Sherm took a 50 penny nail he found in the back of the truck and with a pair of pliers he finished gut and quartered the elk. So the moral of the story for me is, if the blade can keep a decent edge when I use it for EDC or cleaning an elk, the metal it is made from is of little concern. I have used and will continue using a Gerber exchange blade lock back I bought when Gerber was called Legendary Blades.
Jan Carter
May 1, 2015
Jim Kitchens
There are some better pictures on David Lisch's Facebook page. They are much better than I could make.
May 1, 2015
Jim Kitchens
I really like the look of the handle and the blade angle on the ESEE knife. It looks like a good, comfortable working knife. Can't say much about the color; but, that's secondary in anyone's book for a tool.
May 1, 2015
Featured
Jeremy B. Buchanan
That is a great looking knife. I'll bet it is a great fit in the hand too. Hope to add an Esee to my collection someday.
May 2, 2015
tim payne
May 2, 2015
Steve Scheuerman (Manx)
Hope you like it, Steve. I figured a fixed blade would be the best choice for you. You guys do a lot of work around here, and it's nice to be able to give something back. I hope all the staff enjoy their treats. Thank you Jan, J.J. and Hog for all the awesome work you guys do around here.
May 2, 2015
Steve Scheuerman (Manx)
Shipping was much cheaper for me to send all 3 knives to Jan, and ask her to send them to you guys. Hope I chose well on the styles.
May 2, 2015
Alexander Noot
That looks like a nice knife Steve...Steves?
I was quite impressed with the fit and finish on his knives. Not so much on the edgeholding front. But if you don't mind sharpening too much then they're not too bad for general use.
May 4, 2015
tim payne
that is a grrrreat looking fixed blade hog!
May 4, 2015
tim payne
May 4, 2015
tim payne
May 4, 2015
Featured
Jeremy B. Buchanan
One of my favorite fixed blades is my Buck 119.
May 4, 2015
Featured
Charles Sample
I like the hat and the knife!
May 5, 2015
Wendell Watson
Im in with Charles. I like the hat and well you know how much I like buck. lol
Jun 15, 2015
Jan Carter
The hat does indeed compliment a great knife Jeremy
Jun 15, 2015
Ms Data
One of each please . . .
http://gearpatrol.com/2015/01/19/10-best-fixed-blade-knives/
Jul 19, 2015
Clint Thompson
Buck knives are great knives. I have my first folder lock-back from 35 years ago. A good fix blade takes different shapes from one manly man to another. I saw the gearpatrol.com of which Ms. Data, thanks for that young lady, had posted. Some of the knives are great tools. My top ten fix blades to be used in the bush or woods would be a knife with a blade of 4.5 inches to 8.0 inches, with sufficient weight to be used as a chopping tool. Serration is not something I would want in my survival knife but a good sharp blade.
I just returned from the mountains backpacking and fishing. I tool my Leatherman Wave and in my backpack I had my Pro-Tech Brend #1 Combat knife. The Brend #1 Combat has a 7", .225 thick 154-CM Stainless Steel blade. This knife will do the job.
http://www.protechknives.com/knives/switchblades/brend-1-combat.asp
Jul 19, 2015
Jan Carter
Clint,
When and where do we get to read about your trip?
Jul 19, 2015
Alexander Noot
I've got my personal EDC carry.
This coming week I'll be testing it to it's limits during a camping trip.
Jul 20, 2015
Jan Carter
Excellent Alexander, can't wait to hear about it! Have some fun and be safe
Jul 20, 2015
Clint Thompson
I like your choice Alexander. I have a fix blade which is very much like yours but made by Jantz Supply of Davis, OK. Keep us posted on the outcome of your testing. Thanks for the photo and post.
Jul 20, 2015
Jan Carter
I have been waiting for these to hit the market!
The story is here http://www.trestlepineknives.com/ and at less that 90.00 they are now available here http://shop.tsaknives.com/Trestle-Pine-Knives_c252.htm
Jul 27, 2015
Tom Peterson
Jan,
It kills me (as an aspiring knife maker myself) that some folks can put out a quality product and do so at such a low price point! I love it as a collector/consumer but not as a knife maker however. These folks are practically giving the knives away once you consider the material costs and the labor involved to make and assemble all of it. I'll never make a profit as a knife maker! lol!!! Guess that I'll have to learn how to speed up my production and streamline my models to tailor them to mass production if I want to compete or be content making knives for a different user group - or I'll just keep making knives just as a hobby - one that with which I occasionally make a sale to at least break even or make a slight profit. Better keep my day job I guess!!!
Jul 27, 2015
Jan Carter
Tom,
Boy do I understand that!! It just kills Donnie when I start wanting to buy a fixed blade LOL! I have waited for these to come out because of the uniqueness of them and because of the costs. You just cannot beat it.
Jul 27, 2015
Tom Peterson
Aint that the truth! I hope (as a maker speaking) that the firesteel doesn't come with it too?! Unless these knives are made in Asia somewhere I don't see how they can come close to making a profit off of them, but they seem to be a great deal for buyers! Their economy must be in mass production. I just can't figure out how they do it though. It would take me an hour or three to make the sheath and at least 4-6 hours to make the knife at a minimum. My grinds wouldn't be anywhere near as good as theirs though. Throw in etching the blades, sharpening them, stamping the leather sheaths, etc....Are these knives hand forged or done by stock removal? Whatever the case they are excellent buys!!! I'll get off my soapbox now! Hahaha!
Jul 27, 2015
Jan Carter
They are stock removals Tom, made right here in the USA. The firesteel is an add on (still under 100). Greg went about this knife in a way to keep the cost low. He found his own woods, had them stabilized, cut the scales to size himself and shipped out to the maker. He truly wanted these knives to hit at under 100 and be quality. He did well !!
Jul 27, 2015
Tom Peterson
I see...Well you are right, Greg did a great job!!! Looks like they will be great users, EDC's or collector's. But at that price you might as well use the heck out of it and save the wear and tear on your more expensive pieces. I want one now! But my knife making list still has a bunch of stuff on it - kydex sheath making setup and some stencils for my etching machine. Plus I've got about 30 knife blanks that need to go to heat treat if I can ever get them finalized! I'll have to tell Santa about these/add them to my Christmas list!
Jul 27, 2015
Alexander Noot
Tom I completely agree with everything you've said. But keep in mind, these are production blades. Which means that they're probably water jetted/laser cut/bandsaw cut to profile. Which takes only seconds per blade. The steel cost (1095 is cheap) is negligable as is the heat treat when you do it in large batches.
Drilling holes for handles can be automated quite cheaply at any big machinepark and can be done very quickly.
Most time consuming is the grind (assuming that they do that by hand) and making the scales.
Sheathmaking also takes a LOT less time when you have all your leather machincut and stitched on a machine.
Seriously....with all those resources...I bet I could make a bunch of knives and spend less than 1 hour on each of them.
You'd have to do it in large batches though to spread out the cost of using expensive machinery but when done in that way I bet the actual cost per knife is <$30 in machines and material leaving a nice margin to make a profit.
If I were to make knives like this with a sheath it would cost me around 4-7 hours (very rough estimate) a piece. Depending on how many I'd have to make in a batch and depending on whether I'd have to include sheaths. Which means I'd make roughly $10 an hour........which is...ok. I guess....but not great like you said.
Advantage on what I'd make would probably be in: A nicer blade finish...(I can do a nice hand-satin finish in that time) a slightly better heat treat (I don't have to worry about 500 blades going wrong in one heat treat cycle so I can take more risk in my heat treat) and a thinner grind (Same argument as the heat treat.)
Jul 28, 2015
James Cole
Tom, Alexander covered every area except one. The knives are all the same pattern. That makes blanking and rough handle preparation a whole lot easier. It is also very likely that the blades are machine ground. Jim
Jul 28, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
I'm a bit late on this Jeremy, but I was recently given an old (1967-1972) Buck 120. I think in those years, the 120 was made from 440C. I read that Buck switched to 425 in the '80s, and 420HC in the '90s. This one has seen some use, but is still in great shape. I haven't used it yet, myself,
Jul 29, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Anyone have one of A.G. Russell's Shopmade California Bowies? Been looking at them longingly for some time now, and the more I look at them, the more I like them. I do like 154CM steel.
Jul 29, 2015
Alexander Noot
Yeah I like those too. In fact I love the look of most of A.G. Russell's shopmade line. Even more since I've had a tour of the shop and met Perry (whom I assume is) the current knifemaker in the A.G. Russell shop.
Jul 29, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Wow! Got a tour of A.G. Russell's shop? Great!
Jul 29, 2015
Tom Peterson
Alexander & James,
You both bring up some excellent points, many of which I hadn't given much thought to. I figured that the maker had to be doing some things in a more automated fashion or farming some things out to get prices that low though.
Jul 29, 2015
Alexander Noot
Howard, yeah I was lucky enough to be A.G. and Goldie's guest for a week back in 2012. Seriously...if you EVER get the chance to just visit the store and chat with A.G. (or Goldie or anyone else in the store for that matter) you'll create a memory for a lifetime.
Aug 1, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Well Alexander, I'd better get a move on. Neither A.G. nor I are getting any younger. Here's a pic for those who have not seen the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie (154 CM steel): This seems to be a new one, with Norway Spruce cone resin handles/scales.
Aug 1, 2015
Clint Thompson
Beautiful knife Howard.
Aug 1, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Clint, A.G. Russell sells this shopmade bowie in five different handle materials. Mostly exotic woods, and this spruce cone resin handle. Not inexpensive at $395., but big knives aren't cheap these days. And this much 154CM steel (8.5" blade length/1.25" wide) is bound to be a bit expensive. Will let you guys know if I can pry my wallet open enough to get this knife. Hey, it's a new month.
Aug 1, 2015
Alexander Noot
Hahaha, Yeah those california bowies are awe inspiring. I've wondered the possibility of buying one myself...but then I realise I spent everything on steel and supplies and just let it go.
Maybe someday.
Aug 3, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Somebody, talk me out of buying the Bark River Bravo 1.5 [blade length: just under 6"] in S35VN steel.
Now, wait a minute. I can get it in "Field" version - no thumb ramp, Spear Point, as is shown in the pic, (not the standard blade shape), and in a canvas Micarta color I can live with (not the black in the pic), all for no additional charge.
I already have a Bark River Bravo 1 in A-2 steel, and other fixed blades in CPM-3V, S30V, INFI, San Mai, etc.
Aug 27, 2015
Alexander Noot
It's a nice blade. I like barkies. Just can't get myself to pay for one though.
Sep 1, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Exactly my dilemma, Alexander. I just happened on a site that offered options for blade shape, and removing the thumb ramp.
I pulled up a query on Bladeforums, and apparently the latest news on S35VN was from 2011, and back then, what seemed to be high-powered Bladeforum members were not fond of S35VN as configured by Spyderco in their Mule Team knife. Mule Team or MT is apparently their choice for making knives with new steel. It's a skeletonized, no frills knife so folks can try a new steel in the market without spending gobs of money.
Anyway, back in 2011 the thin-bladed little Spyderco fixed-blade in S35VN did not do well on the sisal rope test - very disappointing performance. The Bladeforum powerhouses were up in arms about it, and put it off on manufacturing hype to save production costs over S30V, which is harder on stamping, and grinding machines due to its hardness. S35VN was advertised as being "better" than S30V, but easier to work with by the manufacturer, and easier to sharpen for the user. So, after the thin-bladed Mule (Mule Team) knife "failed", the consensus, back in 2011, was that CPM was putting one over on the user so the manufacturer could save money on stampers and grinders. That S35VN, while more "stainless" than S30V, wasn't a better knife steel - at least in small knives. There was some allowance that in a beefier knife, S35VN would prove to be an admirable steel. Part of the complaint centered on Rockwell hardness. Most of the Bladeforum guys wanted S35VN hardness to be at least 60, while the MT knife came out at about 56-58. Most allowed as how manufacturers would figure out the optimum hardness to get superior performance from S35VN.
Shift to today (2015), and Bark River indicates that their Bravo 1.5s hardness range goes up to 60, which I think means that if they tested every Bark River Bravo 1.5 some would test at 58 and some would test at 61 - the old + or - thing.
I couldn't find any 2015 reviews of S35VN performance or any performance tests on specifically Bark River knives in S35VN steel. Been thinking that I would give it a try, but like the A.G. Russell shopmade Bowie, "trying" either one isn't cheap, and to me, you have to use blades to find out if they are any good, so collector value goes up in smoke.
In review, I haven't been able to pry my wallet open for the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie, and now with this Bark River Bravo 1.5 in the mix, I don't know which to choose, and even if I chose, both are expensive.
Sep 1, 2015
Jan Carter
Howard I agree, at that cost losing the collector value is a huge hit. I would be more likely to field test a KaBar Snake charmer at an average of less than 75 to decide if I was going to invest 300-400. Now don't get me wrong...I love a Barkie and this one is sweet! I just don't know enough about the steel to drop that much $ to find out about it
Sep 1, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Thanks, Jan. I took a look at the Ka-Bar options for S35VN. The little Snake Charmer is a bit small for me, and I am looking for a hard use, or EDC knife with some bulk. The Ka-Bar Big Boss is more suitable for me, although it comes in at a bare minimum of 4.5" blade length, and with a false edge on the spine, it wouldn't be the best style for batoning. Still, it's a nice looking knife, and is less expensive than the Bark River Bravo 1.5.
Actually, looking around for knives other than Bark River in S35VN steel I saw several that put the Bark River on the low end of the price scale! Spartan Blades at $425., Koenig at $350., and White River at $299. Of course, the old adage about buying 2 to use 1 gets a bit rough on the more expensive blades.
Sep 1, 2015
Alexander Noot
Howard, my personal dillemma is not so much whether the steel is any good.
(The grind on a blade has a lot more impact on performance (as long as the steel is at least decent) than the steel type used. You only have to check Jim Ankerson's test results for that, just compare the way the standard Manix performed in a supersteel versus how it performed with a regrind)
But more that of not wanting to pay custom/handmade level prices for what is essentially a production blade. That's indeed NOT a cheap knife. It is however kind of a simple knife (unlike the Shopmake Bowie which is a lot more complex in it's build).
I'm not saying the knife isn't worth the price. But it isn't worth it to ME. There are quite a few makers who would be willing to make you a similarly sized blade completely to your specs at that price.
In the end....it's all a matter of what you're wanting it for. I don't know if I'd be willing to pay THAT much extra just for S35Vn. Compared to say...a 440C blade, or a 52100 steel blade.
Like I said...I really like the Barkies...I'm just not willing to spend that much on fixed blades in unless they're true custom work. (It's why I made myself an M390 blade instead of buying the Bark River bolstered essential that I've been lusting over ever since it came out.)
If I had to pick between the BRK and the AGR and the KABAR that you just listed my choices would be as followed by different motivations:
For use and trying out the steel: the Ka-Bar
For the nicest knife: The shopmade Bowie by A.G.R.
For most collectible: The BRK Bravo 1.5 (Although I prefer the look of the Ramped one)
Sep 2, 2015
Alexander Noot
Also....for a big blade...I don't know if S35Vn would be my choice. Stainless steels can be very suitable for a big blade...but S35Vn is (especially at Hrc60 or higher) isn't really geared towards that.
Sep 2, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Hahahahaha. Well, of course you built your own M390 (great steel) blade, Alexander. I guess I could tackle knife building, but the learning curve is too great, and I would like a knife finished in my lifetime, the end of which is in view (statistically). Johnny Cash sang a song about a similar situation, called "One Piece At A Time".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM
Custom builders: The few names I know have long since passed my price range.
I can well understand your point of view as a knifemaker. There is little reason to pay big bucks for a knife you could build yourself. From my perspective, the knife, whatever it is, is right there, already built, and is a credit card transaction away. My hands hands don't get dirty, and I don't sweat near as much paying for it as I would making it. (Been watching History Channel's "Forged In Fire" knife making challenge)
Your professional thoughts are most welcome, and I agree that the A.G. Russell Shopmade Bowie is a fine piece of work. Considering Dietmar Kressler or even Randall blades, this Bark River Bravo 1.5 is priced at $243., and the A.G. Russell is $395. - both high, but not outrageous. As you suggest, the Ka-Bar Big Boss at about $146., although a different blade geometry than the Bark River, would give me an opportunity to try S35VN for various tasks.
Your comments are very important to me, and I will continue to mull them over.
Sep 2, 2015
Alexander Noot
Well like I said I'm drawn mostly to the Russell bowie.
But I know quite a few people who swear by their barkies.
Sep 3, 2015
Clint Thompson
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Good question Smith. I look forward to someone who has the experience in forging fix blade knives.
I have a friend who grew up and lives in Colorado. He owns and overseas the Taylor Trading Post in Taylor Park Colorado. His name is Bruce Cranor. His father, Sherm Cranor was the one built most of the cabins there, with his own bare hands.
Sherm Cranor use to stay behind after his family left for the winter to cut blocks of ice out of Taylor lake. He would take the ice to their ice house and pack in sawdust. When fishing season opened up they would deliver the blocks of ice to the icebox (for you youngsters this is how you keep you mike cool) on everyone's front porch. The cabins were heated by wood burning stoves which you cooked on as well.
When he would hunt deer and elk for meat, he only took a pocket knife to clean them. One day it was late and snowing heavily. They had just shot an elk. Sherm was in a hurry to clean this elk and get it back to the house. Bruce, his son, told me his dad pulled out his Old Timer and jabbed it into the elk. With arms the size of a big man's thighs, Sherm cut upward so fast it broke the Old Timer blade backwards. This being the only knife they had, Sherm took a 50 penny nail he found in the back of the truck and with a pair of pliers he finished gut and quartered the elk. So the moral of the story for me is, if the blade can keep a decent edge when I use it for EDC or cleaning an elk, the metal it is made from is of little concern. I have used and will continue using a Gerber exchange blade lock back I bought when Gerber was called Legendary Blades.
Oct 12, 2015
Howard P Reynolds
Oct 12, 2015