Very impressive! Thanks a lot to you, Dan and Frederick!

YEAH!  Thank you Fred for definitive comment!   Your 40+ years of collecting and detailed knowledge of earlier knives through personal contact with both makers and sellers is just what we need.  .

OK, so it was for vegetables, not castration....

And Delrin was not used in early 50s.

And?  Queen saved and used older blades in special orders?

Thanks,

Dan 

Wow, thanks Dan and Fred!  I had based my date on something someone has posted on Queen tang stamps.   That stamp was dated c1946-50.  But I have found another one that states c1952-55, which I assume is more correct?  Hard to learn when your references don't match! ;-)

Fred, someday I'll learn to read a knife like that. Great info and read. Did think it was odd to only have the Spey blade.  But I'm not clear... is the blade an older blade, i.e. pre-1958? Or was the stamp used after the stated date of 1955?  Or?

Do you have an approx date for those contract knives?

Any suggestions on a reference to at least know about the No19 pattern and when it was made?

Again, thanks so much everyone!  I have a long, long way to go but I love learning about this history.

-ds

Dave, hope I can clear up some things.  First of all the only thing on that knife pre 1958 is the tang stamp.  The blade or any part of the knife is post 1958 and made today.  Previously they only had pattern No 24 which is a light weight trapper.  The first 19s were offered in both winterbottom and amber handles with satin finish (rare0 or typical Queen polish finish. This being a contract knife which Queen releases no information on as to production or anything else, the customer selects from a menu of options as to how they want the knife made and yes this is a spay blade design for castration but the customer selects what they want.  It is my understanding they picked the spay blade so people in altercatations would not hurt or stab one another.  No part of the no 19 was made during the stainless era so it wasn't possible to put a new blade in a knife because the knife wasn't made during that era.  Again, the No 19 pattern was started in 1958 in bone and amber and then later in delrin and today made in many different handle materials  My friend told me the truck farmer from California came to him and ordered 300 knives at a time.  This was in the 1990s.    

Thanks Fred!  1990s is much later than I thought but that's ok, it's still a cool knife and now includes an interesting story.

-ds

Guys,

I am not a Queen historian, but am trying to understand Dave's knife.

1. The spey blade is stamped "stainless" which Queen used in the 1940s and discontinued the "stainless" stamping in 1950.

2. The #19 Trapper pattern was not introduced until 1958, and Dave's knife, while using the #19 pattern, has only one blade (spey blade).  I get that this knife is an SFO - probably from that CA farmer.

3. I get that Delrin, for Queen knives, or the #19 Trapper, didn't appear until later than 1958.

4. Not disputing that Dave's knife was made much later - possibly the '90s, but can't figure out why the blade would have a tang stamp of "stainless" if that stamping ended in 1950, in favor of calling it "Queen Steel" (same steel, different name)?  Old blade, "new" knife?  Or, did Queen go back to the "stainless" tang stamp in the '90s.

 I agree that this is a confusing knife, but I have no doubt Fred has it correct. The tang stamp bothers me too.  I think the implication is "Whatever the customer wants" in a special order... So the old tang stamp was put on a newer19 spey blade. 

I keep thinking --" they used an older blade", but probably not - they just put on the tang stamp the customer picked.  Certainly we see that in older stamps being used on special edition knives - like Queen city stamps. 

It also makes me think in using published Queen tang stamp guides, that they might apply accurately to catalog knives primarily  - not so much to special order knives.. 

I had to have one of the new Schatt & Morgan Barlows!!!

should be here tomorrow!

wooohoo!  My retirement knife!

She's a beaut, Jan

Thanks Howard

Well done Jan !! That is one of the nicest Barlows I've ever seen. 

Thanks Jon.  I am a sucker for a good Barlow :)

That is a nice looking Barlow Jan, well done .

Wow, that's really too bad that your new Schatt & Morgan Barlow knife has those glaring defects. Granted, they are really hard to see with the naked eye. But under the scrutiny of my magnificent magical magnifying monitor I was able to see them quite clearly. 

Now I don't you to fret about this, Miss Jan, what with Thanksgiving nearly upon us.

So, in the true spirit of the Holiday season, and being a giver like I am and all, I am going to offer to dispose of this knife properly and let your mind heal from the heartbreak of this traumatic experience.

And, please! I don't want you to feel like you owe me anything for helping you out like this. Just pack that puppy up and send it to me. Do it today! Get that defective knife out of your house, out of your mind, and into my caring hands . 

I'm sure you're starting to feel better already just knowing that you have a friend like me. Someone who places others before himself.

Speaking of which. I have noticed some other members that have been posting pictures of their new knives that are similarly defective. Jack and Craig. Patrik and John Bamford. To name a few that desperately need my selfless assistance. All of you guys really need to send those bad knives to me so that I can unselfishly put your minds at rest and properly dispose of those heartbreaking knives.

Everyone! Send all of your knives to me today! Don't bother looking. You probably won't be able to detect the problems. But, trust me! Your knives are broken and I can help!

SEND THEM TO ME.....TODAY!!! 

p.s., BTW Jan. That really is a beauty of a knife you got as your retirement present. Enjoy both in good health, my friend!

That Ron Cooper is a sneaky fellow don't believe him Jan, retirement though oh I could do with that. 

Don't mean it Ron I have left you all my knives in my will.

LOL Ron Cooper.  If I find a defect it is yours.  Please dont hold your breathe I have been carrying it for three days checked it over many times.  But if I find one I will forward the knife LMAO

Thanks for the retirement wishes all.  Once the move to the mountains is complete I am looking forward to it.  Right now my body is wondering why I traded a desk for 100 boxes of stuff LOL

That's a beauty of a Barlow, Jan!  You know I'm thinking about retiring maybe we can do a trade.  I'll give you one of my pass-along knives and you can give me that run of the mill barlow!   No?

I had an opportunity to speak with David Mullins today and while doing so the discussion took a sad turn to the subject of the recent loss of Joe Kious.  In Davids words, Queen Cutlery has lost a member of the family.  The sorrow is felt by every member, from the factory to those that dont work on site.  The Kious family is in our hearts this Christmas season and all seasons going forward.

LOL Tobias I just read about the pass along trade.  Maybe not but thank you for the offer LOL

Everyone at Queen would like to wish you all a VERY Merry Christmas and a healthy and happy New Year! 

Merry Christmas to all, we hope to see oyu soon at a show

Got a great pic of the #90 from Franks Classics.  Thanks Frank

Jigged Camel Bone Handles, MOP Keystone Shield,  ATS-34 Stainless, Production limited to 100. 

I can only blame the lack of Sharp Things at Christmas for my weakness, ah well in trouble again I guess.

John it is beautiful!

It is Jan I managed to resist the first bunch that Greg had. The latest group have a lot of variation in the colour of the handles and I didn't want to wait till I had missed out all together.

hi: got this Winchesters for Christmas.  It is a 4502 stag congress made in 1996 by Queen.   i just love these black box winchesters.

Duke Biscotti

Great lookin knife John.  And Duke, I love those Winchester repo's.  My grandfather has the full collection of them, they are really well made and eyecatching to boot.

I do like those 90's and the MOP shield is intriguing I hope they stick around for a while !  It was a choice between that and the Ruple and it was a hard decision , the last bunch of horn handled Ruple's sold out very fast so I thought it best to get one first.

Really good looking Congress Duke I have a Carl Schlieper Congress, nice knife but I seem to cut myself with it rather a lot . 

Some purdy knives, fellas! I am especially drawn to that Winchester - Beautiful stag and great shield! Congrats to John and Duke! Enjoy those knives, guys!

Here are a few of the other Winchesters.  You'll notice, some of the ones with celluloid handles are outgassing pretty badly.  FYI, if you own any of these, keep them away from your other knives so they don't damage anything.

Great looking collection, Carl!

I admit it.  I'm jealous of the brass handled ones with the hunting scenes!

Thanks Ron, they are my grandfather's, not mine.  But I like to show them off anyways.

Tobias, all the bronze handled ones were made by Utica Cutlery, while Queen made all the rest (stag, bone, pearl, and celluloid handles.)

Hi:  thanks for the pics and comments.  i rally don;t have many of those with celluloid handles, but i'll keep them apart from the others.  

Houston Price's book lists several of those made by Queen from 1987 to 1992 as having waterfall handles.  most references i have seen say that waterfall is a celluloid material.  i have several of these and it sure looks like smooth bone to me.  does anyone out there know?

None that I have seen had smooth bone handles.  Clarence Risner's price guide on these knives calls them "waterfall celluloid", so I think the waterfall is a smooth creamy colored celluloid.  Sometimes they sure are tough to tell apart.

Hello,

Waterfall is (was) a very nice pattern of a terribly self-destroying celluloid.

Terrific when you paid $200+ for such a poor short-living thing...   

Waterfall is a beautiful celluloid but it is also know as one of the worst for gassing off.  They were the first of the celluloids I sold off actually.  I made sure the buyer knew they were fine at that time but they ARE celluloid

I dont think I had any queens that were celluloid though, all were Case Classics

This one is a "Winchester Case Classics" via Blue Grass Cutlery Corp.,© 1989 Case- a James F. Parker Company.

I've got the same pattern, MINT - sort of a miracle, I guess... (of course, I take care of it). 

Red%20Shield%20Waterfall%20%20S%26M_001%20-%20Copy.jpgRed%20Shield%20Waterfall%20S%26M_003%20-%20Copy.jpg

I have a small collection of old Schatt & Morgan Waterfall handled Dollar knives from the 1920s and I have found this old stuff to very stable. It is the newer celluloid that has really gone bad. I also have other old celluloid handled Schatts that have no problems.

A few more pictures.

Those are nice David!  funny the 1920 celluloid stayed so well and the 1980 version was not as stable

I don't know if older celluloid is more stable. David Clark's dollar knives suggest not all old ones destroy themselves.  I had an German eye amber celluloid, mid 1980s.  In less than a year it completely ruined itself and badly tarnished 4 other knife blades.  So I generally stay way.  Four years a I got two Queen Classic swing guards with celluloid handles (a blue and a brown pearl). They were too nice to resist, but I sealed them on clear plexiglass inside a heavy duty food saver bag. So far so good. 

I have also been told that higher temperatures and sun exposure can start the outgassing.  SO my stuff stays cool and out of the light...

Holy cow! Who's that stud in the Stetson?

David,

it's difficult to judge after the pics, but I'm pretty sure it's NOT waterfall, not celluloid, but bakelite - a very stable stuff indeed.

this is the material i am talking about.  it looks  like smooth bone to me.  i have 3 or four of these from 1988 and they look like brand new.  any thoughts?

Duke Biscotti