This one is a "Winchester Case Classics" via Blue Grass Cutlery Corp.,© 1989 Case- a James F. Parker Company.

I've got the same pattern, MINT - sort of a miracle, I guess... (of course, I take care of it). 

Red%20Shield%20Waterfall%20%20S%26M_001%20-%20Copy.jpgRed%20Shield%20Waterfall%20S%26M_003%20-%20Copy.jpg

I have a small collection of old Schatt & Morgan Waterfall handled Dollar knives from the 1920s and I have found this old stuff to very stable. It is the newer celluloid that has really gone bad. I also have other old celluloid handled Schatts that have no problems.

A few more pictures.

Those are nice David!  funny the 1920 celluloid stayed so well and the 1980 version was not as stable

I don't know if older celluloid is more stable. David Clark's dollar knives suggest not all old ones destroy themselves.  I had an German eye amber celluloid, mid 1980s.  In less than a year it completely ruined itself and badly tarnished 4 other knife blades.  So I generally stay way.  Four years a I got two Queen Classic swing guards with celluloid handles (a blue and a brown pearl). They were too nice to resist, but I sealed them on clear plexiglass inside a heavy duty food saver bag. So far so good. 

I have also been told that higher temperatures and sun exposure can start the outgassing.  SO my stuff stays cool and out of the light...

Holy cow! Who's that stud in the Stetson?

David,

it's difficult to judge after the pics, but I'm pretty sure it's NOT waterfall, not celluloid, but bakelite - a very stable stuff indeed.

this is the material i am talking about.  it looks  like smooth bone to me.  i have 3 or four of these from 1988 and they look like brand new.  any thoughts?

Duke Biscotti

Hi again:  RE: celluloid handles on Winchester reproductions made by Queen between 1987 and 1992.  

i have just looked at my collection again and have 4 knives with handles like below on the 2880 1/2 that appear to be a smooth bone to me, although Price calls them waterfall.

i also have two Christmas trees, one goldstone and one charcoal ruby copper.  all 8 of these knives are from 1987, 88 or 89.  all  of the handles look absolutely perfect, like the day they were issued.  These knives are all about 25 years old.  does anyone feel there is any danger of these knives degenerating or adversely affecting other knives, if i keep all of my knives in their boxes in a cool dark place?

thanks

Duke Biscotti

http://http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.htmlI have selected three Schatts with what I call waterfalls handles. These have very “active” waterfall “action”. Hopefully these photos will show that.  In the Dollar Knife sales literature, Schatt calls this material Pyralin and sometimes Ivory Pearl. I am attaching a Schatt & Morgan sales flyer also as information, hopefully you can read it, and it is a large image. There was an article published in Knife World in 2000 that is available to read at this site: http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.html, a wealth of information on celluloid. I don’t think these knife handles are Bakelite so I won’t put them to the flame test yet

here are two shots that are closeups of the material on these winchesters produced by Queen between 1987 and 1992.  this is not the same material as the knives David just posted (which by the way are really beautiful).  it REALLY  looks like smooth bone to me, but perhaps it could be horn or bakelite????  any ideas?  by the way, David, what precautions do you take with your waterfall knives in storing them?

Duke, here are some pages that Risner wrote back in the mid 90's about these knives, and I did see "Burnt Orange Bone" listed, so that may be what yours are.  I'm not sure which pattern number you have, but this may help.

thanks much.  i'll examine this with interest.  the burnt orange bone this mentions is actually a jigged bone with an orangish color.

Duke Biscotti

Hi,

Duke: I agree with you, I think that the material of these winchesters IS smooth bone (see the irregularities of colour of the yellow one).

David: I can be wrong, but that’s not what I would call “Waterfall” (see below); now that I can see the lines on the new pics, I think it’s celluloid, but rather the “faux ivory” or “French ivory type” often sold as Pyralin – wich is a ® of celluloid. 

This WINCHESTER JUMBO SUNFISH KNIFE (Cartridge Series)  is a case Winchester Classic, # W 18 20110, .45-70 Cartridge Shield Series. Four different celluloid handles were available for this  11 th release in the .45-70 Cartridge Shield Series : Candy Stripe, Cranberry Gold Swirl, Tortoise,  and this Waterfall

I was told by a chemist that the handles of this CASE TESTED FOLDING HUNTER (1920-1940) are made from BAKELITE.

Duke Biscotti,

These celluloid handed knives are stored in a drawer as shown. I was also told to not put then in enclosed packaging but to store them so that any off-gassing would dissipate and not be confined in a package where it would attack the bolsters and blades of other knives in the neighborhood. So far – so good.

075.JPG   077.JPG  Here are 2 pic of my food saver method.  The vinyl bag still seems tough and flexible (for thin plastic) after about 6 years at room temperature storage/display. Maybe new food saver bag after a decade or so...

The pile side is harder to see with the 1/8" plexiglass on that side.( rounded plexi- corners). You can still read the blade etch and tang stamps OK, but clearly not as nice as having the knife right in your hands. 

I have no reference for doing this- it is just an experiment, and like all surviving  very nice old celluloid knives, having nothing happen is not proof of anything. Still, I feel better than just having them out in the general population.

These are blue and brown celluloid swirl from Queen Classic early edition.  There are also a yellow and green in same pattern. Seller assured me they really are casein, but I since obtained a Classic in faux turtle, and it is blade-etched "casein".  I  trust the blade etch and think these really are celluloid.  .These queen classics are very hard knives to find because they were such small editions. Of the nine Queen Classic swing guards I know of, the five I have are torched sambar stag, red stag, and brown winterbottom, and the two celluloid. 

It is a tough call for any collector - get the old and very nice knife at some unknown risk.  This conversation has shown me, while I criticize and avoid celluloid, when I see one I really want, it gets in my collection.

    .  

Dan I like the idea.  i does keep it separate from other knives in case of gassing.  I can appreciate leaving it open so gas doesnt build up but I would rather just lose one

2015 is HERE

and there is more

What a line up...lets see...what is on the order first?

Wowsa! I really like the looks of those Spiral Buffalo Horn fixed blade hunter/skinners! Are those handles something new? I can't seem to recall ever having seen scales quite like that. Especially on a regular production, non custom, knife. I'll bet they feel great in hand! 

Thanks for posting these Miss Jan!

I know...The jumbo Carpenter whittler!!!

Steve,

That's the one, the Drop Point, that spoke to me the loudest, as well. With those handles they all look good!

Cheers, my friend!

Yep Jan, that one...

I have no possible use for a fixed blade knife and have resisted lots and lots of them.

Don't know if I can resist that 4180 drop point though !

Also the Scout knife I should have one of those really especially in D2, maybe they will sell out quick and save my bank account from further harm.

I like the drop point hunters and they are certainly the more modern blade, but when you go from field dressing to starting cut an animal up, the extra sweep and sharper clip point are very nice. I buy the 4185s.   

Just saw the 2015 catalog. Wow!  Some knock-out new knives. Nice history opening and nice layout /design (IMO)  Too many to afford. Looks like a very good year ahead to me.

Me too Dan, I think 5 are now on the must have list

I just saw this on a distributors site...I like the idea , what about you?

I know I mentioned it before but it’s worth repeating that Queen is making a change to their tang stamp that I really feel is notable.  That’s the addition of the blade steel type being stamped on the tang.  I think that’s a fantastic upgrade that removes any question.  In addition, down the road it should add value to some of the knives with higher grade steels as they’ll be easily recognized.

I have to admit, if i still had all that celluloid I would be having Garret rehandle them.  This is a good way to dress one up and get rid of the gassing fears

found the Queen NKCA sodbuster!!! Should have it in my sodbuster case next week!

Those are awesome, I have one of them. They were made in 2003 with really vibrant ruby red jigged bone.  Once you get that knife, take it outside on a sunny day and you'll be amazed how much color is in those handles.  I believe 500 of those were made.

Congrats Gary!  Now I really want to see it!

i grabbed a knife from SMITH AND SONS via GEC that is exactly what they did,...the STEEL TYPE IS STRUCK RIGHT INTO THE TANG!!... its and idea that anyone who has ever had to hone/sharpen a knife has had...LOL.. having the steel type struck. i have seen in the past with  QUEEN as well-i have fixed blades and so forth that have in the etch {but that is an etych that will war eventually..

  CCSC -is another ..im just thinking random i remember lots popping the steel types on here and their but a final; EVERY KNIFE POLICY! and STRUCK ON THE TANG  would be great but to stick with it and not an etch on the blade that can fade...

@JAN- just saw your comment about CELLULOID.. LOL.. i love CELL KNIVES.. they LOVE YOU 2 TIMES!!..once when you own them and their purdy.. then when they gas and explode... you have them re-handled and its a whole new dance!

Great looking tang stamp!

What does the "DFC" stand for?

I just had a revelation..."Daniels Family Cutlery" ???? Could that be it?

Steve,

It sounds like you may have read the introductory paragraph at the top of the page? Indeed - "DFC" - Daniels' Family Cutlery would certainly seem like the likely deduction regarding its meaning. That assumption would be bolstered by the last sentence in that intro: "Purchased by Daniels Family Cutlery Corporation on September 18, 2012"

That would be my guess.