Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Carter on January 20, 2016 at 19:20

As of today, January 20, 2016, the NKCA website is still active and says nothing about the demise of the NKCA. They are even still selling club knives. If the NCKA is indeed out of business this should be changed immediately and stop collecting money from people for knives that will not be delivered.

Permalink Reply by Jerry D. Norbury on January 21, 2016 at 8:22

Like several of you, I am still trying to get the youth knives that I ordered and paid for through Pay Pal in April, 2014. We had to order these knives in advance of delivery, so since Pay Pal only gives a limited time to get your money returned, of course that time had expired when it was evident the knives were not going to be received in 2014. THEN we get the message on voice mail when calling Lisa S. that the knives were going to be labeled 2014/2015 and shipped by October, 2015. Another empty promise.

All calls, emails, registered letters, etc. to NKCA mailing address and telephone number and email address are ignored!! If there is nothing to hide, why not acknowledge these calls, emails, etc. WHERE is the money that NKCA received?? If Prater & Co. has not been paid, why not. We ALL paid our money in good faith that we would get what we ordered.

Not only have we tried to contact Lisa Sebenick, President but also her son Chase Broyles, Secretary/Treasurer. The registered letter we sent to him was never picked up, so of course it was never answered. I have contacted the Attorney General's office in Tennessee and am still actively working with them. Hopefully more of you will contact them also.

Since I live in Missouri and frequent the Shepherd Hills Cutlery outlet stores, I noticed in the catalog that there was a knife with signatures of Tony Bose and Lisa Sebenick, on the blade. I saw on their website that the proceeds from the sale of this knife will go to help NKCA. I did purchase one of these knives. The signatures ARE on the blade but no where on the knife is NKCA mentioned. I also wrote to Tony Bose about the NKCA situation but received NO reply from him either.

Thank you for letting me expound on this matter and vent my frustrations. I at least know I am not alone on this ship.

Permalink Reply by Jay Enterkin on January 21, 2016 at 19:21

I have been away for awhile, so just now catching up on this thread.  First, let me say that I don't have a dog in this fight, because I am not a member of NKCA and I have never done any business with them.  I bolded the text below that I am concerned about.

If NKCA is in fact "officially done and closed since October 2015", then why is the website still accepting "Join Donations" through PayPal?  and IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THE DEADLINE HAS LONGED PASSED TO ORDER A 2014 CLUB KNIFE, you can STILL ORDER ONE ON THE WEBSITE!  I know this to be true of both, because I went to the website and clicked thru the transactions to the point where the only remaining thing I have to do was enter my PayPal password and click SUBMIT - at which time I exited PayPal immediately.

I don't know who the appropriate people are to do this, but someone needs to take immediate and decisive action before things get further out of hand, in my opinion.  This kind of activity doesn't just give NKCA a bad reputation, but the entire knife collecting community.

Carl Bradshaw said:

I had some contact with Lisa back in Nov, after many months of trying to contact her via phone, email, text, FB, etc.  She finally responded, and I texted back and forth with her for roughly 1/2 hour.  She claims that all who put money down for a knife will get their knives, although she can't say when.  She is still trying to settle NKCA debt, and gather funds to fulfill the pre-orders.  Also, as of Oct 2015, the NKCA is officially done and closed.  However she is still attempting to make sure the last year knives are made and sent out.

The NKCA knives were the heart of my collection since I was a kid.  I am sad to see it fizzled away.  I don't know enough about everything to point fingers at anyone, to reason how this giant organization could be bankrupt and closed.  As of only 2 years ago, there were still 3,500 members.  Perhaps the combination of life members not needing to pay yearly dues, and all the internet forums where folks can easily talk and compare knives, the organization kind of lost its steam and direction.

Since it's been over 2 years for me since I paid for my knife, I'm not sure if I can get a refund from my credit card or not.  I'd like to think I'll get the knife from the NKCA, but it really is doubtful.  I've lived without the money for this long, I suppose I can wait a little longer.  But I will continue to pester Lisa every so often and try to get updates.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on January 21, 2016 at 19:33

While on a business trip to Nashville (circa 89/90) , I made a small detour to visit the National Knife Museum in Chattanooga. While I'll be the first to admit .. I'm not easily impressed .. I was not. One (1) individual was intermittently present while I & family walked the museum. I had to "find" that person just to purchase the memento pictured below. Neither the layout nor the collection itself was that impressive. Hence, I am not & never have been a member of the NKCA.

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 This cup currently houses an ample collection of standard & diamond needle files. Sorry for the horrible reflections.

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In all fairness .. I understand their club knives were desirable quality pieces of cutlery.

Re: this thread & specifically Jerry's response.

Wait a minute .. did I just read this correctly ?

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Lisa is/was president ..and.. her son or grandson is/was secretary & treasurer ???

That alone smells funny.

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Funds are missing.

Attempted communication is futile .. i.e. ignored.

?? . Where's the mystery . ??

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Does there exist an accessible membership list ?

Can anyone say .. class action ??

Not meant to add fuel to the fire .. just sayin' .......

Permalink Reply by Carl Bradshaw on January 22, 2016 at 7:21

Jay, from what I understand, Lisa has very little to do with the website.  She probably doesn't even know if it's still working or not.

Dale, around 2004-2006 sometime, when the club started facing really tough debt, most of the board of directors and officers were fed up with everything and basically walked away.  Lisa did what she could to fill positions (her grandson, friends, etc.) but it was never the same after that.

As far as a membership list, I've never been able to find one.  In the old NKCA magazine that ran in the 80's and 90's, they used to print how many members were active in each state.  They used to have open ballots to vote for who would be pres/VP/secretary.  Once all this information was handled behind closed doors, it was the beginning of the end.

Permalink Reply by Carl Bradshaw on January 22, 2016 at 7:30

I wanted to add that I am in no way trying to bash or discredit the NKCA.  I have been a member since the early 90's, and the Youth knives have been the main focus of my knife collection for years.  I dedicated many, many hours of time to research and help catalog all the knives ever made for the NKCA and NKM.  I even created a fan website showcasing all the knives.

It really hurts to see what has become of this organization.  If there was a way to resurrect it and make it great again, I'm all ears.  But at this point, my only hope is to get my final knife that I paid for, and put the book ends around this part of my collection, and focus my attention elsewhere.

Permalink Reply by Jerry D. Norbury on January 22, 2016 at 8:51

It is good to see so much discussion about this NKCA matter. I do question the one reply stating that Lisa is trying to get the money together to order the knives. Where did the money go that everyone sent to pre-pay for their knives? I think her SON not grandson is the treasurer. Doesn't the treasure write the checks and handle the money? Also, I think Sue Morton, Vice President is her aunt....so you are right, it is a family affair. Most upstanding non-profit organizations cannot have people in the same family on the board.

I even sent a note to Lisa stating that if she would send my knives COD, I would pay postage "again", but that was another message I got no response to. At that time, it was my understanding that the knives had been made and were in her possession. We had talked to Doug Short with Painted Pony, just as Ike Mitchell said in his post. He and another lady from that business had told us the knives were completed and shipped, but they had not been paid for.

As for the website, doesn't someone have to pay for this site? Annually or at least every few years. And, if people are still joining, that money is going somewhere and Lisa would surely be aware of that.

D ale, I do get to Lebanon a couple of times per year to Shepherd Hills. The knife I purchased with the two signatures on the blade was purchased at the outlet mall in Branson. Since Branson is closer, I am there more frequently.

I want all of you to know that these are my thoughts, but typed by my wife. I lost fingers on my left hand years ago, so it would take me a week to type all of this. Thanks to all of you for your response and especially to Ike Mitchell for telling me about this site.

Carl, I am glad that you have been able to at least chat with Lisa. Even though I have been a life member since mid-70s she chooses to ignore all of my/our correspondence. I don't even know about the phone number that we all have called over the years. Does she even listen to those messages? Emails and snail mail alike are ignored. That has been one of the most frustrating things of this whole ordeal.

Looking forward to continued updates and comments.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on January 22, 2016 at 14:45

As years went on with the NKCA there were many different web addresses.  NKCAknives.com, .org and .edu were the main three.  What would happen is one president would not give the keys to the palace to the next and a whole new site was developed.  The same thing happened to the Museum

When I was creating the website for the Museum, I also created a new one for Lisa that finally brought ALL the previous names to just one single site.  For those that are not aware, the easiest way to break this down is...your website is one thing, the name or domain name is another.  I will also be honest with you...I personally own some of the domain names, NOT the Website.  I helped create it but have no right to go back in and make changes to it.  That is not legal.  Owning the domains and continuing to pay for them to be pointing to the NKCA current site was how I did my share to keep the organization up and running since as life members we did not pay annual dues.

IF my memory is correct, Lisa paid for the website 2 years at a time and I do not know when it expires.

Jerry, I do know that Carl Bradshaw had that discussion with Lisa as I have seen the texts.  So the conversation was valid, the validity of the NKCA intention?  I cannot speak to that.

I will also tell you the Lisa is indeed a member here at iKC, that means she has access to the discussion.  Is she monitoring it?  I honestly do not know.

The mailing list for the NKCA is closely guarded and I know of no one other than the president that has access to it.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on January 22, 2016 at 16:44

Carl .. You're point is well taken.  I've spoken out of place .. without any verifiable information.

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Just based on what I'm reading here .. something certainly seems "fishy". i.e. if there exists nothing to hide .. why not be communicative ..&.. forthcoming with what information one has. Such as ... the membership list. Produce some financial records with receipts showing where the $$$ was spent.

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It simply requires less effort to be forthcoming .. than it does to hide.

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... and not doing so .. can quickly be construed as incriminating .. really !!!

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Again, Carl .. your point is taken .. I spoke out of place.
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Dale

Permalink Reply by Carl Bradshaw on January 22, 2016 at 17:07

I don't know at what point things changed, but in the early years of the organization (1977 - 1990), a financial report of all money coming in (from dues, knife sales, magazines subscriptions) and a report of all money going out (wages, utilities, knife and printing costs) were all available to all members.  Sometime in the last 15 years that information wasn't sent out freely anymore, probably to save costs.  And now I doubt you could get a copy even upon request.

As far as where did the money go from the pre-paid 2014 knife order ... well I am guessing the organization had to rob Peter to pay Paul.  The NKCA has been in the red continuously for 10+ years.  Likely that money from the 2014 knives was used to pay the leftover debt from the 2011 or 2012 knives.  Again, I have no inside information, I'm just guessing.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on January 22, 2016 at 18:17

On a side note.  If you have been paying dues to NKCA, consider supporting Knife Rights or AKTI.  Losing one organization should not mean we, as collectors, abandon the knife community.

I do a small magazine for the Knife Days show in Ohio twice a year.  In that magazine I run an ad for both of these groups for no charge.  I do this because I feel a strong need to give back to a community that has given me so much joy.  So I encourage you, check them both out 

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on January 22, 2016 at 20:49

I certainly agree with Jan.

Support of these 2 organizations will help maintain our ability to collect, use, & carry knives. Something many of us simply take for granted.

If whatever was paid as dues in the past could be actively directed to support either / both of these 2 organizations .. a tangible result could & would be realized. While there may be no "club knife" offered .. I can now legally openly carry a switchblade here in MO as a result of actions by these 2 organizations.

That's a tangible result !!!

Jan Carter said:

On a side note.  If you have been paying dues to NKCA, consider supporting Knife Rights or AKTI.  Losing one organization should not mean we, as collectors, abandon the knife community.

I do a small magazine for the Knife Days show in Ohio twice a year.  In that magazine I run an ad for both of these groups for no charge.  I do this because I feel a strong need to give back to a community that has given me so much joy.  So I encourage you, check them both out 

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