Replies to This Discussion

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 12, 2011 at 12:45

Hal, I know I'm kinda stuck in my ways but I enjoy quite a bit of other carbon steels besides 1095. I have knives in 5160, O1, c75, 1080, 1065, D2, A2, Damascus 1095/1065. In stanless and alloy I have ATS34, 12C27, 440C, 440B, 440A, AUS8, AUS6, Queen Steel, Case Steel and some I'm probably forgetting. My imported knives are from Japan, China, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, France and Italy. Once again I'm probably forgetting some. I have tried knives from all over with a variety of knife steels. I am sure there is alot more out there that I haven't tried but I am limited to how much I can spend toward knives each year. I raise two grand childeren with one in high school and the other in college and they cost a lot. I have plenty money but I must limit my spending because of them. They have no one but me to take care of them. Each year I get one custom fixed blade and a few folders and have already gotten this years fixed blade. Don't try to convince people to try something new or tell them the limits of a certain thing. Just talk about the good aspects of a certain topic. You know the old saying you can't push a chain. Please stay with us we all have alot to learn.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 12, 2011 at 17:30

Very well said..  Hal we do appreciate all we learn from you and it is not to say that we would never try another form of steel, sometimes we are limited by dollars and sometimes by knowledge.  You certainly help us in the latter.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 13, 2011 at 4:44

Thanks for the kind words. What I have been "pushing" for since I came though is traditional cutlery from domestic smiths, not production knives, not customs. Traditionally forged blades which I know through science takes the best edge, finest molecular structure, best performance and so on.

 

The generation of smiths capable of forging in this manner are growing less in number every year as they're all past retirement age. We, the rest of the world will only have the opportunity to obtain this level of perfection for maybe a few more years, a decade if that.

 

After these smiths retire or disappear due to age the world will be completely shut off from crafts of that caliber. The generation coming after it are many years from achieving what their masters have.

 

I guess ignorance is bliss though. I've been desperately trying to convince people to at least give what I have been raving about for so long a shot because soon that shot won't exist anymore.

 

Thanks though Robert and Jan, sometimes it felt as every word I wrote fell on deaf ears.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 13, 2011 at 12:03

Well Hal, lets hear more about these knives, the steel, the process and the makers. I am sure we will enjoy it.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 13, 2011 at 13:54

I've already explained the subject very thoroughly in earlier posts (especially the forging process and steel types), the steel are the ones I mentioned in this thread and and for the makers some specialize in chisels but can do different types of knives, some plane blades and carving knives and so on.

 

For someone that likes "custom" knives then I would hands down say Tsukasa-suka, or for short Tsukasa (Tsukasa-suka is the brand), the knife I showed a picture of. For non-kitchen knives he ranks among the top along with Heiji and Kiyohisa.

Kiyohisa prefers to forge with WS#1 and he also has a very special ore lot of it which is incredible but he can also handle bohler 990k, BS#1 and most of the steels used for highly refined cutlery crafts (he's an excellent smith).

 

Tsukasa focuses more on outdoor knives, machetes, Ryoba (double bevels) and such and uses mostly WS#2 and BS#2 which suits the rougher nature.

 

Heiji is a general bladesmith, he makes everything from traditionally forged saws (these are THE hardest to make out of any cutlery as they are nearly paper-thin and extremely martensitic, the best saw-smith living hands down today but not cheap) to kitchen knives and utility blades. He uses literally the whole spectrum of steels that I mentioned in my earlier post, even Swedish Inox stainless that he forges traditionally and thus turns it completely stainless along with great performance, somewhere around HRC 63-64, easy to sharpen and just a great blade to have around in the kitchen.

 

These are knives that you order from the smith directly though, rarely any stock for the blades especially when it comes to so extremely famous smiths as the ones I mentioned and you have to wait a while until you get you knife, Kiyohisa I know is backed up for two years right now but he's into chisels and woodworking knives.

 

Tsukasa and Heiji aren't that busy from what I've heard.

 

All these smiths only uses pine coal when forging which gives the best performance and also the best protective oxide layer, it's too long to explain why so just take my word for it. Traditional forging with water quenching and tempering at around 180 degrees celsius or less.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 13, 2011 at 18:23

Hal is there a link we can go to to find out more about Tsukasa outdoor knives and maybe some others to.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 13, 2011 at 20:06

I'd love to see some of their work

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 13, 2011 at 23:55

Everything at that website comes from a book named "Shin Dougu Mandala". Translated as "New Tool Mandala. Probably the best book I own but sadly not translated and entirely in Japanese.

 

What I mean by this is that these rare amount of smiths are virtually non-existant unless you inherently seek out the best of the best.

They are from the old generation where you apprenticed at age 8 and constantly worked to refine your craft until it by the age of 40 or so will start to manifest itself to something that has craftsmen lining up in long rows for the astounding skills they posses.

 

Basically my point is that they entirely disregard any kind of advertising, business tactics and the like. Instead they choose to work 100% on perfecting their trade which itself becomes the advertising as their astounding level of perfection spreads to the ones using their crafts.

It's very different from how we do it in the west which is the reason why I'm such a strong advocate for this type of forging, myself once having been the unbaptized person desperately trying to get a hang of just what this exotic cutlery is and what it can do.

 

I'm always willing to answer any question about the matter because the little information that exists in English is lackluster at best.

 

The price for these crafts aren't very costly by the way. Since there's no middle-hands, engineers, designers, advertising and so on to take their cuts from the price you can easily get a fully hand-forged blade for $200 or so and sometimes even less.

 

There's one thing you should note though, very few smiths forging like this delivers their knives "fully" brought out. Tsukasa is one that finishes his own knives but it also raises the price simply because the steel is -friggin- hard (HRC 64-66 for knives) and thus requires some work to reach it's full potential; or should I say it's true performance where the edge is as small as possible.

 

Heiji brings most of his knives out very well too but they can still reach a much keener edge thanks to the extremely refined molecular structure of the steel that comes with this type of forging, especially his WS#1 knives which are on par with Shigefusa (hands down the best kitchen knife maker in the world and delivers their knives 100% polished out by Japanese natural stones) once brought out.

 

I should also mention that power tools are completely out of the picture with this type of cutlery.

Since they are tempered at critical temperatures (180 degrees celsius and less) you can change the tempering (and thus the crystallized structure in the steel by reverting martensite and cementite to ferrite and pearlite which results in well, inferior performance and an edge that doesn't get as keen) only by working very fast on the stone, something I absolutely don't recommend for a beginner but it has happened many times for me when I'm faced with a big order of blades I need to bring out and take them all together grit by grit.

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 5, 2011 at 16:16

Nick, I'm with you.

Case's carbon steel rocks, but I do have a deep, deep love for 1095 .

There's just something I really enjoy in Case's carbon, it may not be the best steel in the world, but it's hard to beat a CV Case Yeller Trapper.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 24, 2011 at 17:58

Halicon,

So if they don't do advertising, do they sell mostly to local markets?  I am with Robert, I would love to see a few of their knives.  I did google the word Tsukasa and found these which are extremely nice looking knives.  Robert have you seen this? 

 http://www.japan-tool.com/hamono/Tsukasa/Tsukasa_Kitaeji_Nejiri.html 

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on June 24, 2011 at 19:45

Yes Miss Jan, I have seen Japan Tool and I'm sure they have some great knives. I think their site might offer more if not for the earth quake.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on June 24, 2011 at 20:00

When my grand daughter gets home I will post pictures and a story. Carbon Rules!

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