Replies to This Discussion

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on February 1, 2012 at 16:50

Well said Clint....lol

Clint Thompson said:

Robert....

I believe this battle has already been joined....so being above my pay grade I will stand by to re-enforce if needed.  Thanks Robert but I have been waiting on this to happen to all of us.  Everything is being marketed to the younger crowd...as it has always been.  The baby boomers are on their way out and the "X" Generation is coming in to their own.  I think there should be an "Old Fart's Knife" magazine.  The problem is the advertisers want to market their knives to the younger buyers.  Case is still hanging in there but I believe their quality has lessened in the last five years.  When us old farts move on, companies like Case will do the same.  Thanks gain Robert.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 1, 2012 at 17:17

Hi Jeff, just to let you know, almost every  brand has been  counterfeited to some extent.  Case is one of the most often counterfeited brands out there because so many people collect them.  Often when it comes to counterfeiting Case knives, the most common thing done is re-branding or building a Rare Case knives from parts of  other less desirable  knives.

Normally the idea is to pass of a repaired or modified Case knife as a mint condition knife or a super rare pattern.  Another thing often done is to find generic blades with no stamp markings and then putting a case tang stamp on the blade.  The other choice it take and old blade and put it in a new body or vice versa.   In short the idea is take part of less expensive Case knives and make someone think they come across a super rare model.

People also love to grind away lightly stamped tang markings and then fake a Case stamp.  Unless you have a magnifyign glass and/or another Case knife from the same era for comparison you may be duped by the restamped tang.  The usual dead give away is the the blade's tang is thinner than it should be.

Bone was an early substitute for stag.  Today's counterfeiters have no problem coloring and jigging bone and trying to pass it off as 60 year old stag on an unsuspecting dupe.  They also have no problem replacing old stag with artificially aged stag and replacing the bone  handles of an old $50 Case knife with Stag handles of limited run and sell it for $300.  That's where model numbers, signs of re-pinning and side by side comparisons of other knives from the era become vital

 

There are books out there that aid the collector to determine prices of old knives. Two types of people buy these  Books:

1) those who collect old knives

2)those who use the books to identify expensive knives to  fake so they can sell them to over anxious suckers.

 I think I read somewhere that the Case Collectors Club actually has collections of counterfeits that they bring to shows just so they can show people what a Case fake looks like.

jeffrey dean deaton said:

I wonder if there are any brands like Case,GEC,etc. being faked?

There sure are alot of those patterns coming out of overseas.

I am to say that if there are,no one would recongnise(spelling) them

as fakes.

Reason is,there are alot of nice looking knives comes from overseas.

It would be easy to fake a tang stamp,especially since case is starting

to have stuff made overseas.

it really is scary.

who is to say a reputable dealer can't get fooled just like us the consumer?

JD

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 1, 2012 at 17:20

JD...

I know some of the older knives are repaired and sold as original but as for as Case, GEC and other knives, I have not heard a thing.  Yes there are many good knives made overseas.  Thanks JD

jeffrey dean deaton said:

I wonder if there are any brands like Case,GEC,etc. being faked?

There sure are alot of those patterns coming out of overseas.

I am to say that if there are,no one would recongnise(spelling) them

as fakes.

Reason is,there are alot of nice looking knives comes from overseas.

It would be easy to fake a tang stamp,especially since case is starting

to have stuff made overseas.

it really is scary.

who is to say a reputable dealer can't get fooled just like us the consumer?

JD

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 1, 2012 at 17:22

Tobias...

Great reply.  Thanks.

Tobias Gibson said:

Hi Jeff, just to let you know, almost every  brand has been  counterfeited to some extent.  Case is one of the most often counterfeited brands out there because so many people collect them.  Often when it comes to counterfeiting Case knives, the most common thing done is re-branding or building a Rare Case knives from parts of  other less desirable  knives.

Normally the idea is to pass of a repaired or modified Case knife as a mint condition knife or a super rare pattern.  Another thing often done is to find generic blades with no stamp markings and then putting a case tang stamp on the blade.  The other choice it take and old blade and put it in a new body or vice versa.   In short the idea is take part of less expensive Case knives and make someone think they come across a super rare model.

People also love to grind away lightly stamped tang markings and then fake a Case stamp.  Unless you have a magnifyign glass and/or another Case knife from the same era for comparison you may be duped by the restamped tang.  The usual dead give away is the the blade's tang is thinner than it should be.

Bone was an early substitute for stag.  Today's counterfeiters have no problem coloring and jigging bone and trying to pass it off as 60 year old stag on an unsuspecting dupe.  They also have no problem replacing old stag with artificially aged stag and replacing the bone  handles of an old $50 Case knife with Stag handles of limited run and sell it for $300.  That's where model numbers, signs of re-pinning and side by side comparisons of other knives from the era become vital

 

There are books out there that aid the collector to determine prices of old knives. Two types of people buy these  Books:

1) those who collect old knives

2)those who use the books to identify expensive knives to  fake so they can sell them to over anxious suckers.

 I think I read somewhere that the Case Collectors Club actually has collections of counterfeits that they bring to shows just so they can show people what a Case fake looks like.

jeffrey dean deaton said:

I wonder if there are any brands like Case,GEC,etc. being faked?

There sure are alot of those patterns coming out of overseas.

I am to say that if there are,no one would recongnise(spelling) them

as fakes.

Reason is,there are alot of nice looking knives comes from overseas.

It would be easy to fake a tang stamp,especially since case is starting

to have stuff made overseas.

it really is scary.

who is to say a reputable dealer can't get fooled just like us the consumer?

JD

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by jeffrey dean deaton on February 1, 2012 at 21:54

yes,i agree toby.

That wasn't exactly what I was getting at though.

I was talking about knives being made from the ground up

being put together as new pieces with boxes,etc.

I know there are people who can take several knives and make

one,but to take all new parts and make a knife on a production

line is a little bit diffrent in my opinion.

that was where I was coming from...

Hope I didn't confuse anyone else,

JD

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 2, 2012 at 6:01

In that Case, I've heard of this happening with some of the pricier Cold Steel, Spyderco, and CRKT knives.  This also happens with the 111mm Victorinox  Rescue knife. 

See:

Fake Rescue

Cold Steel

Spyderco

How to Spot a Counterfeit

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gus Marsh on February 2, 2012 at 14:40

I like articles on some of the knife companies, like Imperial, Schrade, Boker, Western, Remington and others. Especially when the article goes back into the history of a company, modern knives, shields, pattern numbers, and stampings.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 2, 2012 at 14:52

Gus.....

I too love the older Imperial, Schrade, Remington, Western, Winchester etc.  Thanks Gus.  I will forward this on to Bruce.

Gus Marsh said:

I like articles on some of the knife companies, like Imperial, Schrade, Boker, Western, Remington and others. Especially when the article goes back into the history of a company, modern knives, shields, pattern numbers, and stampings.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by KENT GABLE on February 2, 2012 at 18:30

Hi Toby-very interesting info on counterfit knives. I was particularly intrigued by Gerber's Zombie Machete. Sure looks an awful like the old Woodsman's Pal which is a quality USA made brush hook that normally goes for about twice the money. "Zombie Machete" indeed. Has Gerber completely lost their mind or is it's management being run by 16 year olds?
 
Tobias Gibson said:

Hi Jeff, just to let you know, almost every  brand has been  counterfeited to some extent.  Case is one of the most often counterfeited brands out there because so many people collect them.  Often when it comes to counterfeiting Case knives, the most common thing done is re-branding or building a Rare Case knives from parts of  other less desirable  knives.

Normally the idea is to pass of a repaired or modified Case knife as a mint condition knife or a super rare pattern.  Another thing often done is to find generic blades with no stamp markings and then putting a case tang stamp on the blade.  The other choice it take and old blade and put it in a new body or vice versa.   In short the idea is take part of less expensive Case knives and make someone think they come across a super rare model.

People also love to grind away lightly stamped tang markings and then fake a Case stamp.  Unless you have a magnifyign glass and/or another Case knife from the same era for comparison you may be duped by the restamped tang.  The usual dead give away is the the blade's tang is thinner than it should be.

Bone was an early substitute for stag.  Today's counterfeiters have no problem coloring and jigging bone and trying to pass it off as 60 year old stag on an unsuspecting dupe.  They also have no problem replacing old stag with artificially aged stag and replacing the bone  handles of an old $50 Case knife with Stag handles of limited run and sell it for $300.  That's where model numbers, signs of re-pinning and side by side comparisons of other knives from the era become vital

 

There are books out there that aid the collector to determine prices of old knives. Two types of people buy these  Books:

1) those who collect old knives

2)those who use the books to identify expensive knives to  fake so they can sell them to over anxious suckers.

 I think I read somewhere that the Case Collectors Club actually has collections of counterfeits that they bring to shows just so they can show people what a Case fake looks like.

jeffrey dean deaton said:

I wonder if there are any brands like Case,GEC,etc. being faked?

There sure are alot of those patterns coming out of overseas.

I am to say that if there are,no one would recongnise(spelling) them

as fakes.

Reason is,there are alot of nice looking knives comes from overseas.

It would be easy to fake a tang stamp,especially since case is starting

to have stuff made overseas.

it really is scary.

who is to say a reputable dealer can't get fooled just like us the consumer?

JD

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by jeffrey dean deaton on February 2, 2012 at 18:47

((Hi Toby-very interesting info on counterfit knives. I was particularly intrigued by Gerber's Zombie Machete. Sure looks an awful like the old Woodsman's Pal which is a quality USA made brush hook that normally goes for about twice the money. "Zombie Machete" indeed. Has Gerber completely lost their mind or is it's management being run by 16 year olds?))

 

I think what happens is,they have some lower end stuff made over there,and all of a sudden they have the

engraving,or stamping,the boxes,the steel to make a copy of whatever they can buy from anywhere.

they make the almost exact knife for a fraction of the cost of making in the usa.

It's pretty much our governments fault as much as theres.

If small businesses didn't have to pay so much crap just to get going it probably would never happen.

First,because we would not be sending our cheap stuff over there to be manufactured,we could afford to make

everything here for alot less than now.

I hate to say it,but it really is a shame that we as a people are no longer free to have a good thing going.

Not free to make our own way....Now if you are not born with it,you may not be able to obtain it.

Sorry to say,but just how i feel sometimes.

I hope it changes,but it won't happen overnight,

JD

 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 2, 2012 at 18:53

Speaking of the Woodsman's Pal, when I see it I can't help but think  of the old billhook.   I think it would be interesting to trace how various work knives turned into combat weapons. 

I need to get me one of those!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 2, 2012 at 20:09

Tobias...

I will put this one on the list as well.  Thanks Tobias.

Tobias Gibson said:

Speaking of the Woodsman's Pal, when I see it I can't help but think  of the old billhook.   I think it would be interesting to trace how various work knives turned into combat weapons. 

I need to get me one of those!

• ▶ Reply

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