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Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on October 22, 2012 at 19:10

I personally hope our folks that live outside US will comment because its good to get their perspective on this. Making an educated guess, the idea of a knife being imported or global is only an issue here in the states and nowhere else. But lets hear what everyone thinks.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by Craig Henry on October 23, 2012 at 0:04

Interesting question. I have a feeling it is more of an issue to Americans than to those in other countries. But it'll be interesting to hear from our knife brothers in other countries.

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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on October 24, 2012 at 2:29

So am I the first non-us resident to respond to this? Allright.

First off quick answer to the questions you posed:

1. Is Global production an issue outside the USA?

Not as far as I can tell. There are few countries that have as large a knife industry as the US does and therefore most collectors outside of the US will collect knives from all over the place.

2. Do people in the USA (other than me) see the difference between say a Finish company making a knife in Finland and American company producing a knife in China?

Both yes and no. The see that a knife made in an outsource country like China/Pakistan/Taiwan will in general (in general mind you not nearly in every case) will be of less quality (and cheaper) than a locally made product. However this isn't always the case. The Böker+ line is a good example of a line that is outsourced and yet of good quality. From a "country" or "patriotic" standpoint as a lot of US residents seem to have though, we don't really have that. Very few people outside of the US claim that their country is "the best". Or say "support our local economy". Because (especially in the case of the Netherlands where I live) our economy is mainly based off trade and intellectual resources. Not production of any one product.

3. Are definitions and examples clear to the reader?

Seems to be clear. To me it would be a lot clearer if you spoke of Imported versus outsourced though.

4. Is the definition for Global overtly biased? Do other countries such as Germany have issues with German knife companies out-sourcing production to Pakistan or China?

Like I said, I think it's a little bit of an odd term. Global seems pretty much the same as Imported to me. I'd substitute the word Global for the word Outsourced.

For me personally, I couldn't care less where a knife is made.

WHO makes it is a completely different matter. For that reason I (for instance) would never purchase a Microtech or a Strider knife. I don't like their companies even if I do like the look of some of their knives.

I have no problem with a company outsourcing a knife if that means they can retain the quality and yet bring the price down. That's what buisiness is all about. A.G. Russell has been showing people that it can be done by having knives made in china for <$100 pricetags that have a quality that some people compare to $300+ handmade knives.

It's all about what they do and how they do it. Simply because someone is from a certain country he wins no merit in my book. If he's a cool guy taht I enjoy and he makes knives that I like though it's highly likely that I'll buy something off him.

The American focus on American knives somewhat baffles non-americans to be honest. We see it as somewhat naive and a little silly. (But it's still anyones right to be silly and/or naive so we don't hold that against you :-P)

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on October 24, 2012 at 5:31

This is excellent input.  I almost like Alexanders idea of using outsourced as a way of distinguishing a company that produces their knives outside of the country the company is located in.  But under that heading, can you put the knives that have parts manufactured in one country, shipped to another for assembly?  Do those fall under a multinational heading or are they the true global?  

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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on October 24, 2012 at 7:17

Now you're talking about a whole other category of knives once again I think Jan.

I think one of the big problems with defining things like this is where to draw the line. Same as with "handmade"vs"production"vs "Midtech" knives.

If spyderco doesn't make the screws on a knife....did they still make the whole knife? If they had the heat treatment done somewhere else is it still theirs?

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 24, 2012 at 13:36

After seeing some of the replies.  I've massaged the definitions a bit to try and get clarity.

Here is what I've come up with:

Global Production (globals, globally produced):  A term used by American owned knife companies which have their product made in another country. The word global is applied to avoid giving the name of the country where production took place. This is primarily a political/ethical concern within the United States as many American knife companies moved production off shore to reduce overhead. See imported for a comparison. A more appropriate term would be Off-shoring.

Import/export.  In general terms; import/export refers to any product made in one country that is   shipped to another country for sell or consumption.  The term can be misleading.  For clarity sake, if the place of manufacture is important it should be specified (Swiss made, German made, made in El Salvador, etc.) See also:  Global Production, Off-shoring, and Out-source

Off-shoring:  A term used to describe when a company moves production to a different country. Because the company is now operating in more than one nation, it is often referred to as a Global corporation and its products are referred by the misleading term “global”.

Out-source (outsource): When a company pays for once internal operations to be done by another company or when a company begins a new operation but pays another company or organization to do it for them.   In the knife industry, the term is often applied to off-shoring, a specific type of out-sourcing.

In the case of import/export, out-sourcing, and off-shoring, these are my attempts to boil down generally accepted definitions used in the world of business.  As for Global definition, it is the way I perceive the term is being used by distributors in the knife industry.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by Craig Henry on October 24, 2012 at 16:26

I still get the feeling this all is a bigger thing to Americans than to those in other countries,  as I originally thought.

Alexander; Bob Biggs Is a Brit. :)

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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on October 24, 2012 at 16:29

Tobias Gibson said:

After seeing some of the replies.  I've massaged the definitions a bit to try and get clarity.

Here is what I've come up with:

Global Production (globals, globally produced):  A term used by American owned knife companies which have their product made in another country. The word global is applied to avoid giving the name of the country where production took place. This is primarily a political/ethical concern within the United States as many American knife companies moved production off shore to reduce overhead. See imported for a comparison. A more appropriate term would be Off-shoring.

Import/export.  In general terms; import/export refers to any product made in one country that is   shipped to another country for sell or consumption.  The term can be misleading.  For clarity sake, if the place of manufacture is important it should be specified (Swiss made, German made, made in El Salvador, etc.) See also:  Global Production, Off-shoring, and Out-source

Off-shoring:  A term used to describe when a company moves production to a different country. Because the company is now operating in more than one nation, it is often referred to as a Global corporation and its products are referred by the misleading term “global”.

Out-source (outsource): When a company pays for once internal operations to be done by another company or when a company begins a new operation but pays another company or organization to do it for them.   In the knife industry, the term is often applied to off-shoring, a specific type of out-sourcing.

In the case of import/export, out-sourcing, and off-shoring, these are my attempts to boil down generally accepted definitions used in the world of business.  As for Global definition, it is the way I perceive the term is being used by distributors in the knife industry.

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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on October 25, 2012 at 0:15

Ah, allright. Sorry about that Bob.

Craig Henry said:

I still get the feeling this all is a bigger thing to Americans than to those in other countries,  as I originally thought.

Alexander; Bob Biggs Is a Brit. :)

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Permalink Reply by Seth King on October 27, 2012 at 1:00

I ONLY BUY AMERICAN MADE KNIVES FROM KNIFE COMPANIES THAT DON'T OUTSOURCE ANY KNIVES. I LIKE TO KNOW THAT MY MONEY IS STAYING IN THE USA AND GOING IN THE POCKETS OF USA CITIZENS. THATS ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT BUYING CUSTOM KNIVES. WHEN I BUY A KNIFE FROM JIM "TREEMAN" BEHRING I KNOW THAT NOT ONLY AM I GETTING THE ABSOLUTE BEST KNIFE MONEY CAN BUY, I'M ALSO PUTTING MY MONEY IN THE POCKET OF A GOOD DUDE WHO PUTS HIS ALL INTO EVERY KNIFE THAT HE MAKES. NO MIDDLEMAN. THAT'S THE WAY TO GO.

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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on October 27, 2012 at 5:33

And you also yell about it on the internet by typing with Caps Lock on....

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 27, 2012 at 10:35

Alexander, for a moment I thought you were talking about me!  I just went through my web pages looking for where I had put something in "all caps."  I understand that many Americans are very passionate about buying only USA made but I'm pretty much a Big Tent Conservative.  I also know that quality knives are made all around the world.  I buy knives on quality and pricing. 

My point with the definitions is admittedly  "American Centric".  I was trying  make it clear that not all imports should be labeled global.  There are many quality knives being made in countries around the world and many of them surpass American made knives in quality and durability.  Furthermore this isn't new. 

Until WWI most of the knives used by the American military were made in England or Germany,  After WWII American soldiers bought Victorinox knives as fast as they could be produced.  Not because of the  novelty of the knives  but because they rivaled the American knives in quality and were often more functional! In many ways it was the US GI that made Victorinox and Wenger international brand and allowed the Swiss Army Knife to become the best selling knife in the world!

People who know the history of knives and knife making know quality knives come from all corners of the world. I have no doubt that knives made off shore in China or Pakistan can be (and often are)  quality made knives. I also know, knives made in the USA can be junk! It really depends on the quality controls of the manufacturer.  I can respect a person not buying the product for political reasons. I hold a different view that sees a symbiotic relationship between off-shore production and USA made knives.

With all that said, my mantra is always buy what you like.  However, I also feel strongly that you should know what you're buying. Perhaps it should be the sellers job to give you the facts on blade steel, handle material, and place of production but they don't. My goal with  a pocket guide to knives is to educate knife buyers so they can better judge what they are getting. I try to be upfront with areas where I hold a bias, but I also try to be as even handed as possible.

Please alert me, if you EVER see me screaming in an message.

Alexander Noot said:

And you also yell about it on the internet by typing with Caps Lock on....

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