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Pictures of Fishers, Scouts, Campers, Sailors and Hobos

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 10, 2013 at 10:15

11 1/2 pounds fully loaded and there's no reason to carry it in combat if it isn't fully loaded!

The M1 Carbine was 5 1/2 to 6 pounds fully loaded, depending on the magazine!

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 10, 2013 at 10:45

Again, Smiling Knife, very unique and interesting knives.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 10, 2013 at 10:49

This has nothing to do with Campers BUT when I got back from Vietnam all the M-14's were in Vietnam and when I had to qualify again - I went to Quantico and qualified with the M-1.

Permalink Reply by Clay Strong on September 10, 2013 at 12:50

No problem. I thought maybe the extensive comments on that Crosman blog would help in your search. Your knowledge of the these weapons is impressive. Thanks for the info.

Tobias Gibson said:

Clay, I'm sure it was just a slip but the M1 Carbine is not a Garand. The M1 Garand was a Semi-automatic Rifle firing the 30.06 cartridge and was the brainchild of John Garand. Garand was a Canadian by birth but was working for the Sprindfield armory at the time of genius that was the M1 Rifle.

The M1 Carbine Was the brain child of Ed Browning (John Browning's brother) who was working with Winchester at the time. A movie starring Jimmy Stewart would lead you to believe that the Carbine was the brain child of David "Carbine" Williams but it in fact the rifle was initially designed by Ed Browning

After Ed Browning's death several engineers at Winchester went on to e develop the Carbine which incorporated a short stroke gas piston similar to the one Williams had designed. Williams was working for Winchester at the time but had not actually worked on the adopted model, choosing to work on his own design instead! M1 Carbines were used on all theaters in WWII and were normally called "Carbine" by American forces in order not to be confused with the M1 Rifle.

British and Commonwealth forces also used the M1 Carbine and referred to as the "Winchester." Despite having an underpowered cartridge, the Carbine was a favored weapon of the British SAS during the latter days of WWII and throughout the 1950s.

M1 Garand (Springfield)

M1 Carbine (Winchester)

On a knife note, The M1 Carbine initially did not have a bayonet stud so persons issued the Carbine were also issued a M3 Trench knife. Later Carbines were modified with a stud and were then issued with the M4 Bayonet leading to a demise of the M3 Knife

The M1 Rifle actually used three different bayonets. The earliest was the M1905 which was a wood handled bayonet with a 16 inch blade. This bayonet was initially used wiith the 1903 Springfield Rifle. In 1942, his bayonet was given composition handles and re-designated the M1942 bayonet.

Soon afterwards the the blade was shortened from 16 inches to 10 inches and the bayonets were given the nomenclature M1 Bayonet. A program to retrofit earlier bayonets to the new 10 inch length led to older wood handle bayonets be designated M1905E1 Bayonets whereas the M1942s became M1 Bayonets. Marines and soldiers serving in the Pacific who had already been issued the longer 16 inch bayonets tended to keep the longer bayonets in order to counter the 20 inch Japanese Type 30 bayonets.

Permalink Reply by Clay Strong on September 10, 2013 at 13:06

This is an informative site on all bayonets. Bayonets

Clay Strong said:

No problem. I thought maybe the extensive comments on that Crosman blog would help in your search. Your knowledge of the these weapons is impressive. Thanks for the info.

Tobias Gibson said:

Clay, I'm sure it was just a slip but the M1 Carbine is not a Garand. The M1 Garand was a Semi-automatic Rifle firing the 30.06 cartridge and was the brainchild of John Garand. Garand was a Canadian by birth but was working for the Sprindfield armory at the time of genius that was the M1 Rifle.

The M1 Carbine Was the brain child of Ed Browning (John Browning's brother) who was working with Winchester at the time. A movie starring Jimmy Stewart would lead you to believe that the Carbine was the brain child of David "Carbine" Williams but it in fact the rifle was initially designed by Ed Browning

After Ed Browning's death several engineers at Winchester went on to e develop the Carbine which incorporated a short stroke gas piston similar to the one Williams had designed. Williams was working for Winchester at the time but had not actually worked on the adopted model, choosing to work on his own design instead! M1 Carbines were used on all theaters in WWII and were normally called "Carbine" by American forces in order not to be confused with the M1 Rifle.

British and Commonwealth forces also used the M1 Carbine and referred to as the "Winchester." Despite having an underpowered cartridge, the Carbine was a favored weapon of the British SAS during the latter days of WWII and throughout the 1950s.

M1 Garand (Springfield)

M1 Carbine (Winchester)

On a knife note, The M1 Carbine initially did not have a bayonet stud so persons issued the Carbine were also issued a M3 Trench knife. Later Carbines were modified with a stud and were then issued with the M4 Bayonet leading to a demise of the M3 Knife

The M1 Rifle actually used three different bayonets. The earliest was the M1905 which was a wood handled bayonet with a 16 inch blade. This bayonet was initially used wiith the 1903 Springfield Rifle. In 1942, his bayonet was given composition handles and re-designated the M1942 bayonet.

Soon afterwards the the blade was shortened from 16 inches to 10 inches and the bayonets were given the nomenclature M1 Bayonet. A program to retrofit earlier bayonets to the new 10 inch length led to older wood handle bayonets be designated M1905E1 Bayonets whereas the M1942s became M1 Bayonets. Marines and soldiers serving in the Pacific who had already been issued the longer 16 inch bayonets tended to keep the longer bayonets in order to counter the 20 inch Japanese Type 30 bayonets.

Permalink Reply by Brad T. on September 10, 2013 at 17:54

1940's Camillus USA "Camp" knife & Needham/Hill Street/Sheffield Rigging knife.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 10, 2013 at 18:59

Brad, I love that Camillus 4 Liner, I have two of them, but not as good as shape as yours.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 10, 2013 at 19:06

Hi Brad,

Most people think the USA shield stands for United States of America, however they are wrong. The shield actually stands for United States Army. The earlier USA Camillus knives had Brass pins and liners. In 1942/3 they switched over to steel pins and liners due to a brass shortage. They also produced knives with USN shields and the Signal corp and Medical Corps The USA shield is the most common. All of them a real a treat to own, however. both knives are a real treat to own.

As for your rigger is is a pattern #317. The British Ministry of defense refers to these knives as three piece clasp knives. They were issued to all branches of service (army, navy, air force) It is basically the British equivalent to the Camillus Camp knife above it.

Both look like top notch examples of solid built WWII pocket knives! Thanks for sharing.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on September 10, 2013 at 19:24

You learn something new on here everyday! I did not know that about the USA shield Tobias

Permalink Reply by Jim Thompson on September 10, 2013 at 22:22

One "scout type knife" See more in "My Pictures".

Attachments:

9-10-13-RobesonScout.JPG, 566 KB

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 11, 2013 at 5:50

Nice Robeson, Jim.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on September 11, 2013 at 8:33

In response to Toby's question about the makers of the French knives. The knife with the horn scales is the nicest quality of the three. It was made by Issard. The bone knife is marked with the letters MP inside a diamond. I used to know the maker but will have to research it again (note to self, right stuff down). The faux stag knife is marked Pradel on the blade. I think that is fairly generic French cutlery term. Thanks for your comments.