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A. Wingen Logo Identification...
Hello, I've been a member for a while now however this is my first post. I am not a knife collector per se, although I tend to always pick them up. My kids are all grown and gone thus taking any computer savvy that I may have had with them so here goes. Any help identifying this particular imprint will be greatly appreciated. I picked this knife up on an auction site of some notoriety and have since had no luck identifying this particular imprint. The blade is 5 3/4" and the knife is 10 5/8" overall. The blade appears to be carbon as apposed to stainless steel and the grip is an exotic wood of some sort. The hilt and pommel are nickel plated as well. The pictures make it look worse than is actually is. I am guessing 1950s but that's why I'm asking the experts... Any advice is appreciated, thanks....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Charles Fields on
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Let me go on to say, I have read the history of Anton Wingen Jr from several sources and it's a tough read. Trying to glean any information as it applies to my particular problem was frustrating to say the least. I found a site that had several makers marks but none like the one in question. To answer the obvious question that I myself would ask "Was the mark researched before posting the question"? The answer is yes, I did research it to the best of my abilities and resources. Again, thanks for any info in advance...
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Permalink Reply by Michael Squier on
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Charles, great looking knife. Ypur best bet is to post this question in tne "Q&A with John McCain" forum, just below this one. Ive tried to bid on a few A Wingen knives but have not been succesful yet. I looks like a good quality knife. As for not being a knife collector, I think your own description of yourself, and admitting to buying one on a popular auction site, is proof, your a knife collector.
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Thank you for the advice and you may be right about the collector part, I'm probably in denial... I'll re-post it and see what happens. Thanks again.
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Permalink Reply by Bryan W on
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Hi Charles. Your knife is what I would call a "typical" German pattern made by a number of different manufacturers. Anton Wingen Jr. is well covered in the recently updated "German Knife and Sword Makers" book, and excellent resource on German cutlery.
Are there any markings elsewhere on the blade? I'm thinking that your crossguard is polished steel, with the spacers and buttcap likely aluminum, but with the demand of metals during the war(s), the buttcap could also be steel. A magnet would provide a quick answer! The wood handle could be ebony, but its tough to determine from the photos. If you see some spotting or discoloration on the blade, it could be carbon steel. A lot of blades were made of stainless, thus my asking if there are any other markings on it.
The tang stamp on your knife is in this book. This company was founded in 1888, registered in Solingen in 1901, stopped producing products in 1995 and closed in 1997. The company hit its stride during WWI with hunting and combat blades, including daggers like yours. Wingen had other brands under its company wings including "Othello".
When was your knife made? It would take a close inspection, but it could date from as early as the WWI timeframe, but could be later, coming from the WWII timeframe. There was also a late run in the 1990's of knives, recreations of the old ones, but I highly doubt yours is from that. My guess would be WWI era from what I can see of your knife.
Value? That would depend on the market, the condition of the knife, and if you have the original sheath. Its a cool piece, and I hope you are enjoying it. Thanks for posting, and hope this small brief bit of information is helpful!
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Thank you for the reply... The knife has no other markings other than the ones stated i.e rostfrei, stainless etc. As far as I can tell, all the hardware is nickeled brass, according to a small magnet and a jewelers loop. Slight flaking of the nickel can be seen with the loop. Funny thing, I nearly jabbed myself in the forehead while inspecting the knife with the loop lol...
The blade is definitely carbon steel and as far as the grip being ebony, I don't think so. I collect (among a lot of other stuff), antique tools and have some examples of rosewood, boxwood and ebony tools in my collection. It is definitely a dense hardwood though. Unfortunately, I don't have the scabbard for it. From what I can tell, a typical WWII German boot knife scabbard would fit nicely but finding a loose one that has not been beat to death is a challenge. You mentioned that the tang stamp was in the book on German knives. Did it fall into a particular time frame, or was is more of a generic logo used by different manufacturers?
Initially, I bought the knife to fill a hole in my Cold War collection but I started to second guess myself after a search for this particular style of knife and logo ended in frustration. (Like I said, I collect a lot of stuff).... It displays well with my Walther pistols of that era and will continue to do so. Thanks again for your input.
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Hi Charles
Interesting. I would be curious to see what John M. has to say about the materials. All depends on the availability of metals and what was able to be used at the time. The stamp is definitely from Wingen and not another company, and comes from the era of WWI / WWII, unfortunately the research is not specific as to exact time frame. The font style of the stamp tells me its of an older era, ie WWI, so my estimation it would be closer to that time frame.
That's the fun part about this hobby, and some times the frustration, especially with German pieces. It can be a challenge!
Also, be careful! I know I have watch myself when looking at a piece really closely. HA!
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I've been inspecting the guard and the pommel very closely and I'm not so sure about them being nickel plated now. They are a non ferrous metal yet they are not aluminum, much harder and no trace of aluminum oxide... On closer inspection the flaking isn't flaking. There are some scratches on the guard that are from the finishing process that were caused by a file. The silver tone extends into the valleys as well as the lands. I'm guessing German silver, yes, no, maybe... I actually had to look it up to get the compounds copper, nickel and zinc alloy but that's just a guess... The knife is actually quite heavy, much heavier than it would appear to be. Given that the wood is a resinous dense wood that would explain some of the added weight. Given the wood and fittings and the very robust construction the weight is unavoidable. I have a friend that makes pens from exotic woods. I'll ask him if he knows what type of wood it is. Thanks again for your advice and input and you've sparked my interest again. My wife will be glad to know that I officially have another hobby, she'll be so happy...
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The guard and pommel are most likely german silver/ nickle, same thing, used alot by german and english makers back then. very common on well made knives. I have seen nickle on other styles of Wngen knives.
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Thank you. Question, what type of scabbard do you think, this knife would have come with? A military type would have been a little too utilitarian perhaps. A sleek black leather maybe tipped in the same German silver I would guess. With a little patience, I will eventally find a suitable match. Opinions welcomed. Thanks to all who have taken an interest in this topic...
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I would agree completely on the nickle silver being used, now that you can see its not plated. Looking closer at the photos the color is right for vintage german or nickel silver. But as a side note, Plating was not out of the ordinary back then. I have seen steel, aluminum, nickel silver and plating all used. But nickel silver was seemingly the most popular choice.
As for the sheath, i would also agree with your suggestions Charles, but ill check my references and see what i can find.
Nice conversation going!
Oh yea, while its hard to tell from the photo,any chance the grip is black buffalo horn? Its a possibility....
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I took some time today and read up on German silver. Wikipedia has a fascinating article on the subject and its origins in China and other reaches of the Orient, dating back a thousand years... For its day it was definitely a leap forward in alloys. I agree that of that is what the components of this particular knife to be. As far as the grip being a horn of some sort, no it's definitely wood. As close as I can tell from internet photos is looks like Zebra wood (probably not but similar). It's more of a gray with black striations... I appreciate you checking your sources for the proper sheath and yes it is a nice conversation. I can think of worse ways to spend a rainy day...
Anyhow, great information and advice gentlemen...
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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by John McCain on -
Charles- I am so sorry I am late to this conversation, but have had a bad week personally to resolve. Anyhow, I concur with most of what has been previously said, with some minor exceptions.I agree that the age is most likely WWI era, and that the sheath would have been black leather with either German silver or nickel silver tip. My disagreement with my friend Bryan W. is on the the term "typical". In my opinion, it is far from typical.
1-It is single edged-most were double edged , being daggers
2-Most daggers of this period were handled in either stag ,deerfoot, or local wood
3-Most daggers of this period had a much longer crossguard if it had one
4-The use of what would appear to be an exotic imported wood for the handle.
My conclusion, be it only my opinion, is that this was a private purchase knife made for a person of either wealth or stature, perhaps an officer, who could afford such luxury. In addition, most boot knives used by the average soldier during this time frame were not as robust or heavy as you describe yours. Yours might have even been a special order purchase. A great find of a beautiful vintage knife.
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