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new knives that are ruined by gassing.

These knives were unused believe it or not. What a bummer!

6 members like this

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on January 16, 2016 at 17:59

OMG! This always makes me want to cry! The best you can do at this point is clean up the blades as much as possible, change out the scales and use them.

It is an awesome opportunity to learn to fix knives and gives the knives a new life as a user

Permalink Reply by Paul Evans on January 17, 2016 at 4:37

I spent a summer recovering in the hospital from meningitis and when I returned home this is just part of the devastation..I don't have time. Maybe you know some members who would like to challenge one another to see who the best fixers are. I would donate a few if the group was small. I am still crying!
Jan Carter said:

OMG! This always makes me want to cry! The best you can do at this point is clean up the blades as much as possible, change out the scales and use them.

It is an awesome opportunity to learn to fix knives and gives the knives a new life as a user

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on January 17, 2016 at 20:24

That is just way too bad!

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on January 17, 2016 at 21:29

Oh my .. I am sincerely .. so sorry !!

I am also looking for the blade type present in the sunfish / toenails for a project .. ultimately .. for my daughter.

Since I'm only looking for the blade itself .. I am quite possibly interested in a couple of these.

If you'd PM me with a $ amount .. I'll promptly reply.

Perhaps .. not a total loss.

Sincerely .. so sorry !!!

Dale

Permalink Reply by Bryan OShaughnessy on January 17, 2016 at 22:51

These knives look pretty "recent". I thought "gassing" only happened to celluloid scales. I do have a soft heart for sunfish knives; are any of these for sale? You can contact me at bryanoshaughnessy at yah00 dott com with prices and selection you want to unload. Thanks, Bryan O

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 18, 2016 at 2:52

Paul,

That's a hard thing to come home to. I've cleaned up some pretty bad blades. You can see some of my results here on iKC http://iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/how-do-you-clean-you-vintag...

If you want to send me one that doesn't have etching on the blade and I'll see what I can do and send it back to you. That's too many knives to lose. I'll send you a PM with my Email address if you want to get in touch.....Sent a friend request, so I can send you a PM

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 18, 2016 at 3:04

Out gassing comes from celluloid handles but it can affect any other knives that it is near. I keep my celluloid handled knives in a wall display frame all by themselves. I'm too worried about that out gassing to buy any more knives with celluloid handles. I've never seen anything as bad as what happened to you.

Permalink Reply by Derek Wells on January 20, 2016 at 21:28

Paul do not want to hijack your thread but it seems to me we can all learn from your unfortunate experience.

Doug or anyone who wishes to chime in...

How do you tell what is celluloid and what isn't? Is there an easy way/test that will instantly differentiate celluloid form other plastic type materials?

I now know I have one celluloid from a post you put up a week or so back of your knives. But Me Paul and lots of others on the forum may have many we don't realize are celluloid.

Plus is there a way of storing/displaying celluloid knives that reduces the risk of Gassing? I'm thinking does plenty of ventilation help for example rather than a closed display case?

Doug Webber said:

Out gassing comes from celluloid handles but it can affect any other knives that it is near. I keep my celluloid handled knives in a wall display frame all by themselves. I'm too worried about that out gassing to buy any more knives with celluloid handles. I've never seen anything as bad as what happened to you.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Doug Webber on January 21, 2016 at 0:45

First off, not all Butter and Molasses knives made by Schrade have celluloid handles. Celluloid Butter and Molasses looks more vibrant, while delrin has no depth. On a lot of Schrade delrin B&M you can see and feel where the 2 different colored plastics come together. Celluloid was an early plastic and needed thermal curing after production. The curing is what stabilizes it. Old movie films were made out of celluloid and were so highly flammable, laws were passed limiting how many reels of film could be in a theater. I’ve never seen a knife catch on fire, but I can attest to the fact that buffing, can melt a celluloid handle. Celluloid can remain stable for years and then just let go….outgassing. The celluloid releases a corrosive gas that can rust any ferrous metal around it. Shrinkage is a real problem with celluloid handles. I can’t always tell from a picture, especially on Ebay, if the handles are celluloid or delrin. Shrinkage occurs when the celluloid is curing so if there’s a gap at the bolsters then it’s a good indication it wasn’t cured properly. I wouldn’t take the absence of shrinkage as a guarantee it won’t outgass.

The only test I know of is to use 600 grit wet dry sand paper and lightly buff the handle. If it is celluloid, the handle will smell like mothballs. Flitz and a soft rag will take out the scratches the sandpaper leaves. Celluloid handles came in as many colors as more modern plastics, so if you don't know if an old knife with plastic handles is celluloid, test it.

As for storing or displaying celluloid handled knives, I keep them in a sealed bag or display completely separate from any non-celluloid knife. I’ve heard that the last celluloid to be manufactured, came from Germany in the 70’s, but who knows what is being made in other countries now. Forgeries of old knives has always been popular. I don't know of any way to stabilize old celluloid, and if I did hear of a way to do it, I still wouldn't put a celluloid knife with any others.

I'm sure there is a lot of info on celluloid that I'm unaware of. Any corrections or additions would be appreciated.

Schrade celluloid 234K on top...Schrade delrin 234K on the bottom

On the Delrin B&M knife on the bottom, just above the blade tip, you can see a seam between the 2 different colored plastics

Gap caused by celluloid shrinkage

Permalink Reply by Louie Hohl on October 10, 2017 at 20:38

Yes I have been through this disaster myself. If anyone has a fightin rooster knife in their collection made with tortus handle material, get rid of it. They will absolutely ruin your collection. I lost a complete set of straight razors due to the gassing issue with the tortus handle material.

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Paul S on February 22, 2018 at 6:52

Most Celluoids self destruct. They can be great user knives and the colors are terrific for a while. One thing you can do if the frame and blades are in good condition is to have the scales (handles) changed. This can be especially useful for a large frame knife putting exquisite handles on.

Permalink Reply by Bryan W on February 24, 2018 at 19:20

Thank you for all of the posts everyone, this is fantastic information.

Paul, I am so sorry about that happening. That is the unfortunate "curse" of celluloid. Often a ticking time bomb.

I have also noticed myself that older celluloid has a smell to it, and often leaves a "tackiness" on your fingers. Good indicator its starting to go. I lost only a few knives to a destructive celluloid, and have since gotten rid of almost all of them because of it. They can be real heartbreakers...