J. J., that sounds about like here in Alabama.  I do put on a tee shirt under the long sleeved shirt and have a jacket handy in case i need it.  However if I am going to be sitting still on a deer stand for a few hours during one of those rare times that it does get down to 20 or 30 degrees here, I put on more clothes.

Ya'll have me laughing!  Next month I will be getting out the winter clothes and refreshing them in the dryer.  Yep JJ, both long sleeve shirts.

Seriously though, this year we have wood to cut and stack, apparently soon the snake shot gets put away and the larger guns get loaded for bear.  We will have to check with our friends that hunt below the property to make sure they either put out a flag or let us know when they are in their stands so we dont go down there with the dogs.  I am hoping one of them gets me a turkey LOL

LOL, actually I did JJ.  Something funny about winter clothes, they are a lot cheaper in 100 degree weather.  For the next 6 days we range between 68 and 78 and down to 46 some nights.  SEE, I need those 2 long sleeves!

The full mammoth story is here

I have watching a couple of our members checking out tents this month.  Do you have a favorite or one you have been looking at to buy??

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE " I LOVE FALL"  OUTDOOR ACTIVITY?

 Take a scenic drive?

Go Pumpkin picking?

Host a Bonfire?

Go Camping?

I would have to say that my favorite fall outdoor activity is to go deer hunting.

At this time of the year I love to have a walk by the canal and have lunch in a pub at the end , 

Oh yes the boat in the pic is called Sweden and was first registered in 1926 . It has a wooden hull which is quite rare these days , they are mostly steel now . It doesn't show on the pic but you can see all the bits of wood, elm I think, that have been fitted in over the years . These things are just historic relics these days mainly of interest to people with beards or bald men like me .

I'm partial to fall grouse hunting, the fall run into the river for walleye, harvesting my garden--but not the canning and the fall crisp air.

Hiking and fishing without mosquitoes!

John,

Wow would I love to spend fall in your area!

Shlomo,

I am also willing to bet fall in your area is beautiful as well as busy getting ready for winter.

Howard,

OH!  I remember candied apples.  A sweet apple covered in a mixture of sugar, corn syrup and food coloring.  My teeth would be screaming about that these days but my taste buds would be celebrating

Tobias,

Too much going on right to go fishing but the daily walks into the woods have gotten longer and longer

I have a question.  Today I was looking at some options for wood splitting, ok I will admit I went to YouTube.  Yes, I started a bit vague, I typed in chopping wood and now realize I should have put in splitting wood.

How many knife reviews are there where they are using a 100 dollar plus knife to baton a chunk of wood?  

In this day in age are we so unprepared in our lives that this is something we need these knives to be able to do?

do these guys know what an axe is????

Jan, you ask some good questions.  There are bunches of reviews of batoning $100+ knives, and whatever you are going to spend on a knife, you might as well get one that you can baton with, and otherwise "abuse" if the cost is the same as another knife not reviewed for batoning or prying, etc.  Personal preference.  For example, I'm sold on 4WD, and wouldn't be without it, but it is rare these days that I need it.  However, like a lot of things, you don't need it till you need it, or not having it when you need it is a bummer.  A knife with which you can baton gives you a cushion of utility that you probably won't ever need - till you do.

An axe is a proper chopping tool, and better than any knife for the task, except that out in the boonies it isn't always easy or safe to get a hunk of wood to stand up for you to split it with an axe, and you might not find a stump that will protect your axe blade from chopping dirt and rocks as you split wood on the ground.  On the other hand, you tend to go through a lot of wood keeping a fire going for 24 hours, and I wouldn't want to lay in a weeks worth of firewood with a baton and a knife.

I wear a knife all the time, so it is with me.  An axe, no.  Well, it's in the truck, same as a bow saw, so an axe is available, but if you're backpacking it's kinda heavy and bulky to carry.  Nevertheless, backpacking with a couple of friends should allow someone to carry an axe while you carry something from his/her pack of equivalent weight.  Somebody else can carry a Sven saw, or a big ole #12 cast iron fry pan, hahaha.

While it is true you don't always have room to swing an axe to split a log, you can also baton hatchet or or axe head.  I've cut down my fair share of trees and split plenty of wood with a knife but I've never, ever had to do it. I think batoning wood with a knife makes great reality TV but only mediocre reality.  I prefer to use my knife for more appropriate tasks.

Jan, I think I know what you're doing, & you're very clever & sneaky indeed...  You write about so many knives splitting wood & then oh so cleverly & quickly start discussing the axe...  As if to get us knife people suddenly addicted to a whole new kind of edged tool...  Well, it won't work on me.  WHY, you ask?  Because I have already become addicted to the axe myself!!!  Ha HA!  :)

dlkg,

you discovered my diabolical plan!!  i have heard great things about the husqvarna axes but have never used one.  edge retention seems good from the reviews. i love the hat also lol

i guess i just have never felt the need to hit my knife with another hard object to make smaller logs.

Husqvarna axes are made by Hultafors (http://www.hultafors.com/products/cutting/axes/)

On all the "survival" forums the big deal is to bâtonne wood, must be requirement for a quality knife.  It seems that all the exhibitors of this practice start out with half cord length wood and then proceed to bang the Hell out of their knives with another limb.  My question is, where do they get nice cord wood except in their backyards or a public campground.  Either that or they are phenomenal woodworkers to be able to get such clean ends to their cords.

Don't get me wrong, I bâtonne all the time but not cordwood--I make fire sticks when starting a fire (using my palm not a stick) but you don't need to cut smaller wood for a maintaining fire.  Just drag or push the longer pieces into the fire pit.  I can get enough to start a fire from the edges of a log, bark, twigs etc. not from cordwood. 

They espouse the virtues of horking big knives that weigh almost the same as an axe (if not more), with huge, long, blades that make the handles jamb into your ribcage when paddling a canoe or even driving a vehicle yet Mors Kochanski demonstrates the process with a Mora knife.

I have been looking at small axes recently and don't really want to spend over $100 to get a decent one. I have looked at the Hulafors and Wetterling brands.I am sure they are both superior to some other axes on the market. I would love to know how the Husqvarna compares in quality to these two. Pricing seems to be drastically different. 

Jeremy, I found one old U.S. Axe manufacturer still in business.  Council Tool Company (1886), Lake Waccamaw. NC. They make "regular axes", and upscale (expensive) axes, which are made from 5160 steel, and are hand finished forged steel.

Here's a small axe they make:  http://www.counciltool.com/product.asp?pg=product&item=20HB18 

2lb Hudson Bay axe with 18" handle  $52.05 + shipping.

Axes.  I seem to have the same difficulty with axes that I do with knives.  Shlomo mentioned the problem with some "camp" knives being big and getting in the way while wearing them, and while they baton well because of the length of the blade, they aren't the best for skinning small game. 

Axes seem to present similar problems in picking the best one to strap (Molle) to your pack.  A hatchet would pack better, but it's more difficult to fell trees.  The mid-size axes (up to 19" or so, handles) might be the best option to pack for a trip to a primitive campsite, but then there are variations, such as weight of the head, style of the blade edge, and you can get splitting axes in this mid-size range.  A packable splitting axe sounds great for splitting, but not so good for felling or chopping big deadfalls into manageable logs.  Also, maybe some folks want a full-sized axe to get the power behind a swing.  Picking one axe to take with you when you bug out or go camping for a week might be just as hard as picking one knife.

Thanks Howard. That looks like a great option. Here is the Husqvarna I was looking at. http://goo.gl/qrvuZf I will continue to check reviews and listen to any input you all have.

That looks like a good price for a Husqvarna hatchet.

Howard, I carry the same style of axe, called a canoe or cruiser, but mine has a 1¾ lb head and a 24" handle.  Sufficient mass and velocity to fell trees that a "camp" knife will not be able to do without an effort and more importantly, (especially if in a survival mode) with far less expenditure of (non-replaceable) calories (energy)

To show clients, I've used an axe to skin game and fillet fish--not for the moment efficient but doable.  I've also used clam shells, sharp rocks and for skinning round rocks. All my great uncles used were a pocket knife (of various configuations but Moose was most popular) and a round rock to skin all their big game and farm animals.

My favourite axe line, bar none, is the Iltis Ox-head (Ochsenkopf) brand from Germany.  You can finger snap the blade and it will ring. Far less the a GB and great quality.  We used them in log home construction.

This link for examples not pricing  http://www.kctoolco.com/Axes-Ochsenkopf-Ox-Head-s/3911.htm

Remember, Hultafors makes Husqvarna...http://www.bladehq.com/cat--Hultafors-Axes--1995 and they're available on Amazon.com

Wowzers, Shlomo!  Skinning with a round rock?!  You sure "Neanderthal" isn't part of the family name?  Skinning with a sharp rock is reasonable, and maybe even a clam shell, but a round rock?

A sharp axe is a thing of beauty.  Most people don't expect knife sharpness in an axe, but John Juranitch (Razor Edge Systems) used to demonstrate shaving with an axe.  Work is so much easier with a razor-sharp axe,

Unfortunately, there is just no beating a chainsaw, which is why all the famous American axes (Mann, Collins, Kelly,etc.) went out of business, and I suspect Ashdown's and Blenkhorn (Canada) suffered the same fate.  

Still, nobody is going to haul a chainsaw and fuel way back in the boonies unless their vehicle is a dozer, so a fine axe will probably always have its place in the sleeping bag (should keep an axe warm in frigid weather) of serious campers and woodsmen.

Thanks for the link to Ox Head axes.  I like the OX-20 H-1257 Universal Forestry Axe.

Okay, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to axes.  Howard, When did Collins go out of business and who is making the Collins axes that are sold through Ace Hardware.  The only true axe I own is a Collins Boys Axe purchased about 10 or so years ago. 

Not sure where it was made but it has done what I needed it to do. (cut and split wood.)  Maybe my expectations were too low.

The Mann Edge Tool Co. bought out Collins in 1966, and moved their equipment to Lewistown, PA (Mann Axe HQ).  In the liquidation of Collins, Mann got the U.S. plant, but The Stanley Works of New Britain, CT. bought the 4 out of country Collins plants (Mexico).  Mann Edge Tool ceased production of the Collins brand in 2003, and the Collins axes you see today, I think, are made in the old Collins Mexico plants now owned by Truper Herramientas.

Tobias,

Some Collins Boys axes, and other axes, were stamped on the axe head near the poll with "Collins".  Paper labels were used a lot as well - with no stamping.  I'm not an expert on axes, and don't know if the stampings covered certain years, or if they stamped willy-nilly whenever they felt like it.  Since you bought your Boys Axe around the time that Mann stopped making them, you might have a Mann made Collins instead of a Mexican made one.  Fit and finish might be the best judge unless someone here at iKC is an expert on axes.

Howard, to be honest, I'm not too concerned.  I use it when I need to make little sticks out of big sticks.  It is in the shed next to my $20 shovels, rakes and other yard implements.

I wanted an axe with a handle between toe or three feet long and this one seemed to fit my needs perfectly.  I recall removing a paper sticker from it that read made in USA.  I could probably go back to the my neighborhood hardware store and find another one still there.  Some stock doesn't move that quickly.  Heck, I took his Mint in the box, Big Mouth Billy Bass off his hands about a week ago.  It had been there since they first came out!  Had a $15 sticker on the box, told him I'd give him $5 for it.

When he asked why I wanted it, I told him so I could annoy my wife with it!

He laughed, told me to take it and said he hoped my wife would kick my *** when I played it! It is in the man cave with the switch turned to off! 

Okay I've digressed, Big Mouth Billy Bass have nothing to do with axes unless you use them as a target in an axe throwing contest!  Wonder how long the stupid fish would sing "Don't Worry Be Happy" if that were the case!

Hahahahaha.  Kinda brave, except for the "turned to off" part.

Hitler Against Battoning

YouTube clip

Here is my thoughts on batoning with a knife.

Knowing how to baton with a knife is good skill to know for any woodsman. It is also good to know if your blade is capable of doing it before you get into a situation where you have to do it in order to survive. If your lifestyle puts you in a position where this is a real possibility, then having a knife that is capable of batoning is a good idea even if you have no intention of doing it.

That said, if this knife is not going to be suitable for all the other things you will be relying on your knife to do then this knife will be a secondary back-up for your main knife and your hatchet or axe. It should not be your primary or only tool.

Most people, even most people who camp regularly will never, ever have to baton with a knife unless they intentionally put themselves in that position or were to stupid to pack an axe..

However, the smart woodsman will have some type of axe or hatchet or even a saw with him!  To leave it behind would be kinda silly. Axes and hatchets should be tools of the trade for a woodsman.  Knives are a poor substitute for an axe just as an axe is a poor substitute for a knife.

Intentionally using a knife for a chore your axe or hatchet should do and/or using your axe for a knife chore should left to the posers on reality TV or truly for emergency situations.

Even Neanderthals realized you could chop wood better if you put the blade on the end of long handle!  After 70,000+ years of knife and axe evolution we're suddenly playing with the idea of one blade, one tool, for all chores?  I seriously doubt this is true, except for the people who are marketing bushcraft knives.

Why baton with a knife?  So we can pack lighter?  Maybe the better idea is dump the 600 ft of "emergency" paracord bracelets, belts, and handle wraps that you're never ever going to unravel because they look too cool to use and instead pack about 60 feet of 50lb fishing line wrapped around your flashlight which doesn't look cool but you'll find extremely useful even in non-emergency situations!

Paracord and batoning!  They follow in the footsteps of such dynamic duos as  Hope & Crosby, Martin & Lewis, and Abbot & Costello.

Hitler, Grandpa, knife abuse, batoning; a little historical perspective.

https://clarksonhistory.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/secrets-of-the-dea...

I think Tobias makes a great point about axes.  You just gotta think of them as an essential tool to pack, as is a collapsible saw like a Sven saw, and a knife or two, along with a file to sharpen your axe.  

Howard,

That happens to be one of my favorite knife related articles of all time!

Tobias,

That is what I was thinking while seeing all those videos LOL

Tobias - Very well spoken and right in line with my thinking on the matter of battoning. I want a knife that can perform in an emergency situation. I have tried battoning with the Colonial Defiant to see how it would perform. I do not intend on using it for this purpose often. Thus the reason I started asking about a good choice for an ax. I do have a small folding saw and would like to have a decent, small ax or hatchet to complete my camp tool kit. At this point I will be carrying my TOPs B.O.B. knife and my Corona folding saw. With my current budget, I am leaning towards the Husqvarna Carpenter's axe. If I come into more money before I order that one, I may go for a Hultafors Hatchet or axe.

Thanks, Tobias.  I enjoyed the comments posted at the bottom of the article as well - local folks stopping by Richtig's forge to chat, buy a couple knives, or deliver some scrap aluminum during WWII.

another article I liked

There’s a reason we chose knives and wood carving as the topic of our first Trackers Earth book.

A knife is an incredible tool for the forest craft we do at Trackers. You can use your blade in profound ways, from making feather sticks for lighting wet wood in the rain to carving fish hooks to feed yourself. My knife has cared for my own life and comfort many times.

That’s why it feels strange to hear that some people think of knives only as weapons to be feared. Schools suspend kids for stocking a car safety kit, forgetting about the pocket knife their grandfather gave them, bringing a spork to eat lunch with, shooting an imaginary arrow and making a clock.

I understand the very real safety issues schools have to deal with. But I also believe one-size-fits-all policies play into fear and rarely lead to good solutions. Our schools, even our culture, can lack the nuance gained from interacting with the physical world.

We’re entering an era when education only allows children tools used for abstract thought. No carving tool is allowed, but a tablet computer is required. We have dramatically changed the definition of “normal” for childhood. It has become normal to steal cars or shoot people in video games, but it’s no longer normal to carry a carving knife to whittle with.

On top of that, kids get shorter recess and more homework. They’re no longer allowed to play at the park on their own, or even climb trees there. Connecting with the physical world has, in some ways, become illegal in our schools and irrelevant in our lives.

But for some kids, I have seen that shift with powerful results. I’ve watched them use knives to gut a trout they caught for dinner. Afterwards, they cooked those fish over a campfire they started with the bow drill they carved. They even ate stew with spoons they whittled. I feel fortunate to witness many of these small but profound interactions with the forest, the cold, sunshine, the earth and the out of doors.

With a knife and other tools (even of stone, bone and wood), the essentials of life don’t come from an ethereal cloud. They come from paying attention to Nature, to things not just human-made. Through intelligent use of tools, including knives, schools can empower kids to interact with life: making and learning with their minds, hands and hearts.

http://trackersearth.com/blog/kids-should-play-with-knives/

Good article, Jan.

I thought so Howard,  I wish more schools AND parents would realize this

Nice article to read, though the educational aspect was quite romanticized -- no doubt written by someone that wants to learn in ways that they too were not taught in school.  I doubt school was ever about learning the ways of the land & how to use tools tools to survive & thrive on that land -- those were things left for outside of school.  Knives were more a part of daily life in cultures past that were not prepackaged & complete with easy-open tear strip.

As a kid in high school in the suburbs in the 1980's, I can say with complete certainty that being caught with a knife in school would've meant suspension at the very least, even with my status as an honors student.  Things may have gotten worse since then, but the sky hasn't suddenly fallen.

Hopefully the back-to-the-land movements, mixed with parents that were raised on video games & violent movies, will lead to a tempering of whatever hysteria has hit in the past.  

Problem with hysteria is that there is always a new one to deal with (kid labeled as a terrorist for building a clock, for example -- they didn't even evacuate the building, something you would do if you were a school administration that believed there was a bomb in the building, but I digress).  

There's always been something some group has been afraid of, at least since I can remember, & definitely before (switchblade ban, something of which all of us here are acutely aware)...

Just some anecdotes from my past showing how things used to be different.

I graduated from a rural school in SE Missouri in 1964.  Pickups with a gun rack in the rear window were almost standard procedure in those days.  They were driven onto school property pretty much daily with rifles and/or shotguns in plain sight.  Some of those trucks probably had pistols in them too.

An incident that really shows the difference between now and then happened one day.  My mother was one of the teachers and was keeping study hall when this happened.  We had this kid who was a smart alec and a show off.  He had heel taps on his shoes (anybody remember those?)  He got up and clanked to the small library that was in one end of the study hall.  He picked up a magazine and rolled it up.  He was strutting back and forth and just generally creating a disturbance.  My mother went up to him, took the magazine from him, and told him to go sit down.  He smarted off to my mother.  Bad idea.  Whack!  Without thinking she smacked him in the face with the magazine.  He said, "Don't you hit me with that magazine!"  Whack, whack!  He got it two more times.  She then escorted him to the principal's office.  That was the only time I ever heard his voice from outside his office.  From inside the study hall with his office door closed I clearly heard him say, "The next time a teacher tells you to do something, you do it!"  What happened to my mother?  Absolutely nothing.  She told the principal she did it without thinking and thought she ought to apologize to the kid.  The principal said, "Don't you dare."  I told my mother if she did apologize to the kid I would probably have to fight him.  After the incident, at least as far as behavior, the kid was a model student.  After the incident his family and my family were still good friends.  And no one wanted to sue the school or beat up the teacher.  In fact I am sure the kid got into even more trouble when he got home.

Another interesting thing about this school.  We had a smoking tree.  If the high school kids wanted to smoke, they had to go to the smoking tree during lunch break.

Fast forward to about 1970.  I was then working as an engineer in Lexington, KY.  We had an intern who was an engineering student at the University of Kentucky.  He had to give a presentation in I believe a public speaking class.  His presentation was on gun control.  He borrowed my M1 carbine and with permission brought it into his class to use as a visual aid in his presentation.

Pre knife hysteria- When knives were actually MADE in high school-