Any other carbon steel folks out there................?

I'm still here, Craig. I love carbon steel. The ones that are hammer forged are my favorite.

We  need to get some new guys in here Robert...some young blood. LOL!

Great to hear from ya'll, Johnathan, post some pictures of your forged carbon steel knives, we would love to see them.

Welcome guys!! New blood! Ask and ye shall receive. lol

I love CARBON Knives!!  Carbon damascus made with 1095, and meteorite!!  

Jonathon,

Yes, we would love to see some of your also!

I agree Randy, carbon in the kitchen is a must

Randy Jr. has been messing around with some W1 High Carbon steel. :) Heres what he came up with. 

Of all the types carbon out there which one is the better for hardness and edge retention? From what I have read 1070 seems to be topping the list But, I have seen some other types of carbon listed. So what do ya'll prefer in carbon and why Thanks 

Well sir. This is like personal opinion like. What is the best candy bar that Hershey makes?   Yet from my perspective. There are MANY steel that harden to a higher RC then 1070.  OK so let me explain  1070 is good steel. and has about 70 points of carbon in the steel. Carbon levels do in this case effect the total RC and hardenability of the steel.    There are many steels that have higher carbon levels  They also have more carbide forming elements in them. Most tool steels for example are high carbon. but have other alloying elements in the mix like cobalt, and molybdenum, and chromium, to name just a few..  These added elements do many things. some will give a better edge retention, others add hardness to get a higher RC. etc.  I currently am testing a few High Carbon steels that have some of the sickest numbers and will be on the higher end of what is possible to be used as a serviceable knife steel.  This stuff I have dubbed STEELZILLA!   . Its got a carbon content over 2.0 where 1070 is a carbon of .70 

I think 1095 has more carbon, than 1070. It has .95 carbon content. It's easy to sharpen and really holds a good edge. I like it alot. Another fine carbon steel is 5160 or what is called spring steel. One of my favorite knives is hammer forged vintage Studebacker springs. You may want to try different carbon steels to see the one you like best.

I JUST WANTED TO SHOW OFF SOME OF MY NEWER CUSTOM LEATHER SHEATHS 

Hey Freddy, that's some nice Sheaths. I wish some of our members would realize they can buy a new dress for their favorite knife. I have gotten several new sheaths for some of my favorites knives, over the years.

Beautiful sheaths!!

aND THANK YOU TO ROBERT BURRIS & CRAIG HENRY FOR THE KIND WORDS

Top knife is an Ontario. Middle is a Case XX. Bottom has no name but is sharper than any knife I own. Now I'm off to clean them still tryin to teach the girlfriend how to care for carbon knives and cast iron skillets.

That's some pretty knives. You have that right, wash and dry, fast...Ha..Ha.. The carbon knives can really take a great edge.

My two newest and favorite Carbons.  Donnie forged them at the little forge out at SMKW

This is a couple of vintage Robesons, I have. I love all those old time knives.

here is one I made with the help of custom maker Bryan Breeden.

The knife below is O1 steel with a 2-5/16 blade and the same for the handle.
The handle is macarta I made from some old USMC wool socks.

Wow, great little knife. I've never heard of making macarta from sox.

Thanks, I have made Macarta a few times with Socks, old coat , jeans. I have some burlap to use next time.

Little different but they do have forged high carbon blades.

Thanks for sharing Igor. Being an avid recycler/repurposer myself, I can appreciate your selection and use of materials. Lot of excellent materials out there wanting to be useful again. About 85% of my work is recycled material.

Do have an observation and question for clarity's sake - The lines and marks along the hardened edge, are they artifacts due to etching or actually stress related cracks from forging or thermal cycling? I occasionally get etching artifacts for various reasons, but those all seem linear and almost a pattern as if they were introduced into the steel during the original manufacturing process maybe.

Did you do any testing of the steel prior to forging the blade?

I like to approach it differently as far as testing "unknown" steels for potential blades. I prefer not to waste a lot of time and fuel forging and pre-finishing a blade not knowing if it will produce a serious blade. I also want to know up front what thermal cycling procedure will bring out the best in steel. I see this as the only way to be reasonably sure.

Hardness is only a part of what makes a good blade. One can easily overheat a steel and get coarse grain growth. It will get/test hard sometimes over 60hrc and will also be very brittle/breakable. It will not, however, hold a good cutting edge for long nor will it sustain much flex stress. I want to get the most out of a steel as possible, so I do the testing up front.

Please understand I am not faulting your methodology. We all have our own paths to walk. I was just curious about your approach. I understand forgeable steels pretty well (been making knives for a pinch over 60 years now), but I get curious about "artifacts" that show up in a finished and etched blade.

 I use a bit of bog oak when I can find it. My diver buddy brings me stuff all the time, even the occasional mastodon bone or other fossilized items. Lot of nice unique materials out there for the looking.

Thank you for the explanation.

It's always nice to hear makers discussing different techniques, especially in different countries.  What available in one is not always available in another but both of you recycle quite a bit.  That tells me that the US is not the only country throwing away usable items, thank goodness for folks like you

Igor

You probably have all/most of the same tools for testing that I have being a fellow bladesmith. All are very common, our brain's ability to discern differences and similarities are more of a deciding factor. Pretty simple really to figure if a mystery steel -"M" - is in the same ballpark composition and is suitable as a blade steel.

I have taken samples of known common suitable blade steels - ie. 1084, O1, 1095, W2, 52100, 5160, etc. Annealed/normalized and then heattreated one end as I would a blade from that particular steel. These are my "controls" that I use for comparisons. Next study the characteristics and original purpose/use of the ""M" - farm implement, spring, prybar, saw, drill, etc. Each steel composition was designed for specific purposes based on intended use. Not an "exact" thing but a narrowing down factor. Take "M" and forge pieces down to rough knife dimensions, take care to use good bladesmithing practices - no overheating, cold striking, etc. Anneal if possible and definitely normalize as with any forged blade steel. Pay close attention to how "M" responds during forging, different steels react differently under a hammer. Once normalized, heat for a hardening quench using a simple magnet to know when approaching critical temp. Carefully reach quench temp without over heating thinner areas then quench in water. Severe but effective for testing purposes. Break about 3/4" to 1" off the tip and observe the grain pattern also take note of break pattern - straight and even, jagged, partial tearing, etc. With practice one can learn to read the  grain and the break characteristics to help determine if heats and quenchent are correct.

Now to the grinder (use a nice clean 80 to 100 grit belt for this), take "M" and best guess "Control" do a simultaneous spark comparison - hardened end. Spark characteristics are pretty defining for different compositions of steels, however they need to be in the same condition regarding hardness for most accurate comparison. Once the most similar control is determined, then one can experiment with refining the heattreating procedure for "M" with reasonable confidence in results.

No, definitely not an exact science, but compiling all the variables above help determine the best approach to achieve repeatable results. One is much more likely to get the best results from "M" concerning a working serviceable blade.

Here's a example - given a large quantity of commercial brand "X" mower blades (not home use box store mower blades). After doing quite a bit of testing, determined that "X" was most similar to 1084 but had some alloying added - color variation in spark and forged with a bit more resistance. Made test piece of known CruV and redid spark test - identical. Getting somewhere, so forged two test blades from "X", heattreated for CruV, did durability testing, edge testing, bend break testing, etal. I can now sell a blade from "X" with confidence that it will perform very well. I cannot say it is CruV (mfgr will not confirm or deny), but can warrant the blade for life with out worry.

Note: There are a lot of variables to consider of course, but being consistent with the things that can be controlled and paying attention to details as the testing proceeds can be very beneficial to end results. I also do this with large saw blades, leaf springs, etc. Too many different mfgrs and material sources to be certain, so for me testing is a necessity. Besides, I love the mystery challenge.

Thanks Jan, when we gonna be neighbors?

Carl on the 22ns!  As soon as I get my printer up and running I am printing this out for Donnie!

Well Merry Christmas!

Donnie's pretty sharp and probably has most of this stored in the back of his head. But, no matter, I'm usually available and once we get him comfortable with his forge he can apply and learn as he goes.......especially at Trackrock. He'll be teaching the little guys all this stuff in no time.

Hope the move goes smoothly and safely.

Jan, I know you guys are real busy but just wanted to say Merry Christmas!

I finally got around to finishing up a little knife I forged at Trackrock that Donnie thought was interesting. I call it "Plumber's Necker". Forged from a 6" Rigid pipewrench jaw. Grandson convinced me to leave the adjuster nut in place. His reasoning - "Give you something to play with until the Paramedics arrive."

Enjoy.   lumbers%20NK2.jpg Plumbers%20NK4.jpg

ps - bet Donnie is wishing he hadn't sold both his boats now. We've been getting flood warnings all night.

LOL!  Carl we are pleased all 3 boats are gone and if it floods at the new house on the mountain we are ALL in trouble

The plumber is a great little knife, I want Donnie to learn to make me one

This is a group of some carbon steel knives that I use although most of them are fairly new but I sure enjoy them. I have several that are much older and used for many years but decided I wanted some newer ones. (Imagine that)

oooweee, that hunter is nice Bob!

Great Forum! Here's my latest work in progress. 1095 HC Steel, Brass Guard, Copper Pins, with Elk Horn. 13+ inches
Greg

Pretty nice "traditional" Greg. Is that 13"+ an over-all or just the blade?

Got your leather figured out?

Thanks Carl, I really enjoy creating. I'm making 5 of these. Kind of a tribute to Uncle Bob Riggs who made these for our servicemen during WWII. It is 13 " + overall, thinking about a copper lined pretty plain sheath.

For you folks that like to watch Discovery Channel/American Moonshiners, keep your eyes open for this to be riding Huck's hip in a few episodes. Huck's a good friend of mine and he's started "working" with Mark on the series. Wanted to use a bear jaw but critters toted it off so Hawg Jaw had to work. Blade is forged from Farriers' Rasp and is 12" (knife is 18.5" oal). Working up the sheath today and should get it to him before weekend. Think I'm going to call it "Moon Sticker".

Will post sheath pics later this week (hopefully).

Enjoy

Ps - one of my gunstock war clubs will do a cameo sometime during the season as well.

Hey now, that is great congrats on getting to have this beauty on TV.  LOL, Donnie wants to know if he can have your autograph!!!

Carl, That is one badass knife. Anxious to see the sheath.

I need a proof reader bad....... Should read "bear" instead of "ear".

Let's wait until it hits the flat screen (if it does) before we start talking signatures. Besides Jan, you and Donnie can watch me forge these out anytime. Sure good to talk to both of you yesterday.

May be late next week on sheath, still have a good bit to do on it and time will be short until then.

Hey Mike, thanks, the knife will definitely compliment it's owner. He's typical back mountain quiet, but not to be messed with - if you know what I mean.

I have knife Mark McCoun. Very nice knife!
Steel 1095, maple handle, blade 11.5 cm (3 mm thickness).