Does this knife have a pen and inkwell on the blade? The fact it is marked Germany means it most likely was made for export to the USA. We have laws which requires the product to be marked with the country of origin. Germany does not. An example of this is the newer Puma knives made in China but marked Germany.
It is interesting for sure Billy. It does not have pen and inkwell Clint. The stamp is hard to see even with a lighted magnifier. It appeared at first to be a sort of water fountain but Donnie cleaned it up some and the best match I can came up with for this is Albert Marx with an M above an A. I am having some difficulty locating too much info on it though
Jan it I think it is more duplicitous than you state. I've read on several knife sites that due to the nature of the German law. Essentially a German Company can send a part or parts to a foreign country, (blade blank) have it stamped "Germany" and then have the knife assembled in the other country and then sent back to Germany for final inspection and packaging and it is considered "German made" and the packaging can be marked Made in Germany/ product of Germany / etc.
I remember people having discussions about Swiss Army knives when they changed their boxes to read Swiss Made or Product of Switzerland or something like that instead of "Made in Switzerland".
I know for the longest time, Victorinox received the raw steel from Solingen, Germany but In fact, only one part of the Swiss Army knife that is not forged in the Ibach factory is the corkscrew which has been out-sourced to a factory in Seki Japan for a long, long time. (All the other parts can be stamped out of sheets of steel but the cork screw needs to be forged.)
"In 1907, Albert Marx took over the cooperative and introduced German organization into the manufacturing set-up. After the Second World War, the Maniago firms, through a series of modern and technologically advanced investments, were able to achieve goals marked by unparalleled quality, a quality that continues to distinguish their finished products and which is the result of a tradition handed down from father to son."
"The linked advertisement is indicating a subsidiary in Milano (Italy), and I am convinced that the Jewish prename “Albin” might have been transferred to “Albert” which Bill DeShivs researched as founder of the Coricama Consorzio from Maniago. This 1922 advertisement is listing its products as pocket knives, Scissors for all purposes, straight razors, safety razors and razor blades, table knives, knife blades for silverware makers, hair and beard clippers, Arkansas knives and daggers, manicure articles, corkscrews, nutcrackers and others."
Blacksmith artisans continue carrying out there activities in small "family-run" shops up to the early years of1800 when the issuo of product commercialization was brought to the forefront. Initalyy the selling activities relied on vendors in Valcellina. In 1887 the "Società Cooperativa della Premiata Industria Fabbrile di Maniago" (cooperative of Maniago's blacksmith industry) was set up with 200 memebers and was mostly dedicated to selling products. Because of the lack of business flair and proper organization, Maniago's products were often overwhelmed by the competition of Solingen and Toledo. In 1907 Albert Marx, a German enterpreneur and owner of some plants in Solingen and near Como, took over the Cooperative and built up the first workshop in Maniago. The role played by Marx's workshop (which later took the name Coricama) was not only that of being an innovation but it also acted as a master model for future smaller workshops and nowadays it stands out as one of the most remarkable examples of industrial archeology on the rightband side of river Tagliamento. In the workshops electric power was used as the main source of energy, thus eliminating all logistic limitations. Moreover workers could rely on the basic tool machines such as lathes, mills and refining machines so that plastic processing was left behind. Ancient methods and procedures were replaced by press machines and scraps were removed by means of very hard tools mounted on properly-equipped machines. Parts were finished through electrolyte baths into nickel and chrome which guaranteed a protective coating as welle as resistance to oxidation and corrosion. Cutting tools workshops owned their reputation to abrasive grinding wheels which used to be placed one next to the other so as to be rotated by the same transmission gears. The presence of numerous operating machines led to a better production planning which resulted in a remarkable increase in the quantity and variety of supply.
ijust dumped my 50+junkers into a bag...all kinds of parts knives,some broken pearls,,,some mixed blades etc etc....now i need to build another freebie pile....LOL...thanx for having me group.... i always have at least one BOX-O -KNIVES somewhere! last knife i looked at on my deask had a blade that said CONSTANT on the tag stamp....ANYBODY??
Ran into a gentleman we see up here about every year, Mr. Ron Etter. He had with him an interesting find. I still need to do some research on the company but thought I would share with you a knife he found in a box at a sale. Good old carbon steel with nice old bone handles TANG STAMP READ S ...
HERDER KNIVES - THE COMPANY In 1623 Jürgen Herder hardened swords during the Thirty Year War dating from 1618-1648. Then in 1650, they began production of knives, mainly for the dutch market. In 1727 In order to make Herder-knives unique, "Pic-As" was registered as the oldest trademark in Solingen. In 1800 Herder knives were introduced in the Malay Archipelago by the Dutch East India Company, then Trademarked in 1802 "Tjap Garpu" (Fork Brand) which still remains a famous brand in the Near and Far East. In 1850 Herder Knives expanded into South America and Southern Europe. 1925 brought the development of a new stainless steel in cooperation with domestic and foreign partners. The Trademark "Constant" for knives with blades of stainless steel was implemented in 1927. Then the Trademark "Don Carlos" for professional knives and scissors made of high carbon steel was implemented in 1931. In 1955 Herder entered new markets in Europe, Near and Far East and North America. In 1995 the moved to their new facility in Solingen, Germany and have been producing quality cutlery to date.
knife was made by Carl Friedrich Ern. The company originated in Solingen circa 1870s. Goins' book suggests that Ern started by making razors then expanded into folding knives in the 1920s and hunting knives after WWII.
I have a question for you guys and gals. Do any of you collect vintage Ice Picks? When I was a boy, the only way to buy ice was in block form. Everyone had an ice pick to break the block into smaller peices. If ya'll have some, lets see some pictures, please.
This is an old corkscrew with an ice pick as requested Robert. It was made by Christopher Johnson of Sheffield circa 1900. This company was more reknowned for making pocket knives and cutlery.
LOL! In reality there are very few icepicks in any evidence locker. However, there are many kitchen knives and cheap pocket knives. At one time, screwdrivers were the #1 stabbing weapon used on police.
just dug out and old KENT {made by camillus} last night. i went the super quick route on cleaning ,THE DREMEL!...found all the steel and brass under all the rust and patina pretty fast.oiled blades and at least works,even both blades snap.had to hone both blades and put an edge back on them...lots a fun...took 50 cent box knife made EDC..fun. plus has actual PINNED KENT shield!
Clint said: "At one time, screwdrivers were the #1 stabbing weapon used on police."
One needs to asks "Slotted or Phillips" As long as we're drifting. Gunsmiths still refer to screwdrivers as "turnscrews"
In the old days, flintlocks were sold along with a turnscrew because without the matching turnscrew, you couldn't loosen the lock to replace the flint.
The Phillips screw and associated screw driver really didn't become popular until Cadillac adopted it for its manufacturing in 1936. Before then the Robertson screw (suqare socket head screw) was more popular. Thus it is highly unlikely that you will find a Phillips screw driver on a pre-1936 pocket knife
The slotted screw remains the most popular screw in the world followed by the Phillips.
Tobias, while we are on screws and drivers. Back in the day when I was a Refrigeration Tech. it would get our goat when we had to take apart a peice of equipment an it had, half a dozen different screw heads. Phillips, slotted, hex [in different sizes], and star bit,...ect...ect... We had to carry alot of tools.lol
The reason for officers being stabbed with the slotted screwdriver has revealed its self. Burglars and car thieves carry the screwdriver in their back pocket and when approached by law enforcement. Some.....the really dumb ones.....pull the screwdriver out and assault the officer.
Good people seldom attack others. Only those with evil intent do evil things. Vehicles kill tens of thousands of people every year, pollute our environment and use up our natural resources but we don't ban them. We don't even do a good job on banning those who keep driving drunk and pose a great danger to others. Two years ago I was in on an arrest of a 24 year old drunk driver. This was his 10th DUI at 24.
Why we don't ban vehicles is because we don't blame the vehicle for the deaths but the drivers. Therefore, why do they ban most knives, sword canes etc. and firearms? The reason is....in order to control your subjects you must disarm them first. You must create a State where the subjects depend on the Government for day to day basic needs like shelter, food etc. (Public housing, food stamps.)
You can not call a man...woman....a slave when they are holding a sword (Made in the USA). I hope this helps.
Ron, thats a neat old knife. I'm sure the gang will find out about it's history. I have a knife that I might need help on, myself. It's a 5 blade Kissing Cranes, that I always thought was some sort of Whittiler. Someone, lately has told me it's a 5 blade Stockman. I disagree, big time, but I have seen my Moose patterns called Muskrats, when there is no way they come close to a Muskrat. I'll post some pictures later, good friends. Thanks!
Pattern names can be confusing. Many serious knife collectors feel Bernard Levine is the only one to try to bring some sense and sanity to names of patterns/models. Everyone should have a copy of "Levine's Guide To Knives And Their Valures", if for nothing else, it's sections on pattern names and history. Sometimes a knife can actually have multiple levels of pattern name. For example; "Double end jack, cattle knife"!
i agree of course with craig... buy books ... then buy knives... lesson the worry.i have been preaching that for a bit...lol... but in the meantime here is probably one of the best camillus resources their is online.i have actually printed all of the pdf's and put them on CD in case this site is removed. this isnt the home page ,this link takes you right to the heart of all the catalogs and everything they have.its not everything of course..but like i said its a start and i love it. you are gonna want to save this site. when i was into collecting camillus i used it almost everyday! http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Catalogs/Catalogs.htm IMPORTANT -YOU HAVE TO LITERALLY CLICK ON WHERE IT SAYS THE NAME OF THE CATALOG.NOT THE PICTURE OF THE CATALOG.the way its all laid out in pdf..just a wonderful job.. those who have not seen this im golad to have shown you.
HEY ROBERT DO YOU HAVE PICS OF THE KISSING knife? with it be KC ,5 blade stockman seems much more their pattern style then a 5 blade whittler.if you had pic i could help you with that for sure!
Ron I right there with you. If it looks good to me then I buy it. If the knife is older and I need to brush up on the history....just that much more fun.
Ron I like that old Scout . That would have spoken to me too. Have you ever tried Flitz cleaner/polish paste? It removes rust and dirt, but has so very little cut by way of abrasive you are really not removing any material.
My bet is the USA has rubbed off as it should appear centered just below the New York Line The knife most likely predates WWII because of the material, the shield and the can opener. Of not it was made in the late forties after the war. I think by 1942, war time production kicked in and the shields were USA, USMC, and a variety of other knives made for like the mdical, signal, chemical corps etc.
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
I wish, I had taken a better picture of the blade and tang stamp. Clint, let me know if you find one.
Jul 4, 2012
Clint Thompson
Robert....
Ok will do.
Jul 4, 2012
Jan Carter
Marx & Co. Solingen Germany. Doing some research but does anyone know about them?
Jul 11, 2012
Billy Oneale
Jul 11, 2012
Clint Thompson
Jan....
Does this knife have a pen and inkwell on the blade? The fact it is marked Germany means it most likely was made for export to the USA. We have laws which requires the product to be marked with the country of origin. Germany does not. An example of this is the newer Puma knives made in China but marked Germany.
Jul 12, 2012
Jan Carter
It is interesting for sure Billy. It does not have pen and inkwell Clint. The stamp is hard to see even with a lighted magnifier. It appeared at first to be a sort of water fountain but Donnie cleaned it up some and the best match I can came up with for this is Albert Marx with an M above an A. I am having some difficulty locating too much info on it though
Jul 12, 2012
Tobias Gibson
Jan it I think it is more duplicitous than you state. I've read on several knife sites that due to the nature of the German law. Essentially a German Company can send a part or parts to a foreign country, (blade blank) have it stamped "Germany" and then have the knife assembled in the other country and then sent back to Germany for final inspection and packaging and it is considered "German made" and the packaging can be marked Made in Germany/ product of Germany / etc.
I remember people having discussions about Swiss Army knives when they changed their boxes to read Swiss Made or Product of Switzerland or something like that instead of "Made in Switzerland".
I know for the longest time, Victorinox received the raw steel from Solingen, Germany but In fact, only one part of the Swiss Army knife that is not forged in the Ibach factory is the corkscrew which has been out-sourced to a factory in Seki Japan for a long, long time. (All the other parts can be stamped out of sheets of steel but the cork screw needs to be forged.)
Jul 12, 2012
Clint Thompson
Jan....
"In 1907, Albert Marx took over the cooperative and introduced German organization into the manufacturing set-up. After the Second World War, the Maniago firms, through a series of modern and technologically advanced investments, were able to achieve goals marked by unparalleled quality, a quality that continues to distinguish their finished products and which is the result of a tradition handed down from father to son."
Falcon Knives
Angelo Campolin & Figlio, SNC
Via Battiferri, 6
33085 Maniago (PN), Italy
http://www.falconknives.it
Jul 12, 2012
Clint Thompson
Jan....
"The linked advertisement is indicating a subsidiary in Milano (Italy), and I am convinced that the Jewish prename “Albin” might have been transferred to “Albert” which Bill DeShivs researched as founder of the Coricama Consorzio from Maniago.
This 1922 advertisement is listing its products as
pocket knives, Scissors for all purposes, straight razors, safety razors and razor blades, table knives, knife blades for silverware makers, hair and beard clippers, Arkansas knives and daggers, manicure articles, corkscrews, nutcrackers and others."
Jul 12, 2012
Jan Carter
Clint,
Thanks for that info. Great find and I appreciate the translation also . We found this
http://books.google.com/books?id=ko-r0fou-QoC&pg=PT121&lpg=...
Jul 13, 2012
Clint Thompson
Jan...
I have this book your link shows. Good book.
Jul 13, 2012
Jan Carter
Seems this gentleman was all over and although there is not one piece of information out there, a lot of bits and pieces seem to exist
http://www.switchblades.it/bin/ab.cgi/help/page/li-2/4390-08-662497224
Blacksmith artisans continue carrying out there activities in small "family-run" shops up to the early years of1800 when the issuo of product commercialization was brought to the forefront. Initalyy the selling activities relied on vendors in Valcellina. In 1887 the "Società Cooperativa della Premiata Industria Fabbrile di Maniago" (cooperative of Maniago's blacksmith industry) was set up with 200 memebers and was mostly dedicated to selling products. Because of the lack of business flair and proper organization, Maniago's products were often overwhelmed by the competition of Solingen and Toledo. In 1907 Albert Marx, a German enterpreneur and owner of some plants in Solingen and near Como, took over the Cooperative and built up the first workshop in Maniago. The role played by Marx's workshop (which later took the name Coricama) was not only that of being an innovation but it also acted as a master model for future smaller workshops and nowadays it stands out as one of the most remarkable examples of industrial archeology on the rightband side of river Tagliamento. In the workshops electric power was used as the main source of energy, thus eliminating all logistic limitations. Moreover workers could rely on the basic tool machines such as lathes, mills and refining machines so that plastic processing was left behind. Ancient methods and procedures were replaced by press machines and scraps were removed by means of very hard tools mounted on properly-equipped machines. Parts were finished through electrolyte baths into nickel and chrome which guaranteed a protective coating as welle as resistance to oxidation and corrosion. Cutting tools workshops owned their reputation to abrasive grinding wheels which used to be placed one next to the other so as to be rotated by the same transmission gears. The presence of numerous operating machines led to a better production planning which resulted in a remarkable increase in the quantity and variety of supply.
Jul 14, 2012
peter force
ijust dumped my 50+junkers into a bag...all kinds of parts knives,some broken pearls,,,some mixed blades etc etc....now i need to build another freebie pile....LOL...thanx for having me group.... i always have at least one BOX-O -KNIVES somewhere! last knife i looked at on my deask had a blade that said CONSTANT on the tag stamp....ANYBODY??
Jul 16, 2012
Jan Carter
Peter, good to have you here
Ran into a gentleman we see up here about every year, Mr. Ron Etter. He had with him an interesting find. I still need to do some research on the company but thought I would share with you a knife he found in a box at a sale. Good old carbon steel with nice old bone handles TANG STAMP READ S ...
Friedr.Erh&Co.
Solengin - Weyer
Jul 18, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
That's a really nice old vintage knife, Miss Jan. Did you buy it?
Jul 21, 2012
Sue OldsWidow
For Peter
Jul 21, 2012
Sue OldsWidow
For Jan
knife was made by Carl Friedrich Ern. The company originated in Solingen circa 1870s. Goins' book suggests that Ern started by making razors then expanded into folding knives in the 1920s and hunting knives after WWII.
Jul 21, 2012
Sue OldsWidow
OLD KNIFE~Friedr. Ern & Co. Yachtsman Knife Bone Stag
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/old-knife-friedr-ern-co-yacht...
Jul 21, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
I have a question for you guys and gals. Do any of you collect vintage Ice Picks? When I was a boy, the only way to buy ice was in block form. Everyone had an ice pick to break the block into smaller peices. If ya'll have some, lets see some pictures, please.
Jul 23, 2012
ken benson
I think most ice picks are still being held in evidence somewhere.
Jul 23, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
Whoa...mine has never seen anything but ice. I bet you could hurt someone with it though. I'll post some pictures latter.+
Jul 23, 2012
Smiling-Knife
This is an old corkscrew with an ice pick as requested Robert. It was made by Christopher Johnson of Sheffield circa 1900. This company was more reknowned for making pocket knives and cutlery.
Jul 23, 2012
Clint Thompson
LOL! In reality there are very few icepicks in any evidence locker. However, there are many kitchen knives and cheap pocket knives. At one time, screwdrivers were the #1 stabbing weapon used on police.
Jul 23, 2012
peter force
just dug out and old KENT {made by camillus} last night. i went the super quick route on cleaning ,THE DREMEL!...found all the steel and brass under all the rust and patina pretty fast.oiled blades and at least works,even both blades snap.had to hone both blades and put an edge back on them...lots a fun...took 50 cent box knife made EDC..fun. plus has actual PINNED KENT shield!
Jul 24, 2012
Tobias Gibson
Clint said: "At one time, screwdrivers were the #1 stabbing weapon used on police."
One needs to asks "Slotted or Phillips" As long as we're drifting. Gunsmiths still refer to screwdrivers as "turnscrews"
In the old days, flintlocks were sold along with a turnscrew because without the matching turnscrew, you couldn't loosen the lock to replace the flint.
The Phillips screw and associated screw driver really didn't become popular until Cadillac adopted it for its manufacturing in 1936. Before then the Robertson screw (suqare socket head screw) was more popular. Thus it is highly unlikely that you will find a Phillips screw driver on a pre-1936 pocket knife
The slotted screw remains the most popular screw in the world followed by the Phillips.
Jul 24, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
Tobias, while we are on screws and drivers. Back in the day when I was a Refrigeration Tech. it would get our goat when we had to take apart a peice of equipment an it had, half a dozen different screw heads. Phillips, slotted, hex [in different sizes], and star bit,...ect...ect... We had to carry alot of tools.lol
Jul 24, 2012
peter force
hey rob thank god for swiss army champ!...what is it 220 tools.....LOLOLOL!
Jul 24, 2012
ken benson
Is that a Swiss Army Champ in your pocket?
Jul 24, 2012
Clint Thompson
Peter and Ken...
I have two of the Super Champs. I just love this knife but a bit too big for the pocket.
Jul 24, 2012
Billy Oneale
Jul 24, 2012
Clint Thompson
The reason for officers being stabbed with the slotted screwdriver has revealed its self. Burglars and car thieves carry the screwdriver in their back pocket and when approached by law enforcement. Some.....the really dumb ones.....pull the screwdriver out and assault the officer.
Jul 25, 2012
Jan Carter
And they ban knives!!!???
Jul 25, 2012
Clint Thompson
Jan here is the deal.....
Good people seldom attack others. Only those with evil intent do evil things. Vehicles kill tens of thousands of people every year, pollute our environment and use up our natural resources but we don't ban them. We don't even do a good job on banning those who keep driving drunk and pose a great danger to others. Two years ago I was in on an arrest of a 24 year old drunk driver. This was his 10th DUI at 24.
Why we don't ban vehicles is because we don't blame the vehicle for the deaths but the drivers. Therefore, why do they ban most knives, sword canes etc. and firearms? The reason is....in order to control your subjects you must disarm them first. You must create a State where the subjects depend on the Government for day to day basic needs like shelter, food etc. (Public housing, food stamps.)
You can not call a man...woman....a slave when they are holding a sword (Made in the USA). I hope this helps.
Jul 25, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
Hey, ya'll remember what we started our conversation about? Well heres my vintage ice pick. This was the kind used back when I was a boy.
Jul 26, 2012
Tobias Gibson
I have one somewhere. I need to find it.
Jul 26, 2012
Jan Carter
Tobias I have one also. I remember not only using it for ice but making holes in leather (making a belt hole)
Jul 30, 2012
Featured
Craig Henry
That's cool Robert. What does it say on the handle? I can make out "Ice Company" and that's it.
Aug 3, 2012
Featured
Craig Henry
According to Levine;
"Camillus Cutlery Co. Camillus N.Y. USA -- Used through WWII"
"Camillus New York USA" -- used after WWII
Beautiful scout knife Ron!!
Aug 13, 2012
Jan Carter
Ron,
That is beautiful. There is no USA under the NY?
Aug 13, 2012
Featured
Craig Henry
Houston Price book also shows; "Camillus Cutlery Co. Camillus N.Y." -- used through WWII
Aug 13, 2012
In Memoriam
Robert Burris
Ron, thats a neat old knife. I'm sure the gang will find out about it's history. I have a knife that I might need help on, myself. It's a 5 blade Kissing Cranes, that I always thought was some sort of Whittiler. Someone, lately has told me it's a 5 blade Stockman. I disagree, big time, but I have seen my Moose patterns called Muskrats, when there is no way they come close to a Muskrat. I'll post some pictures later, good friends. Thanks!
Aug 13, 2012
Featured
Craig Henry
Pattern names can be confusing. Many serious knife collectors feel Bernard Levine is the only one to try to bring some sense and sanity to names of patterns/models. Everyone should have a copy of "Levine's Guide To Knives And Their Valures", if for nothing else, it's sections on pattern names and history. Sometimes a knife can actually have multiple levels of pattern name. For example; "Double end jack, cattle knife"!
Aug 13, 2012
peter force
i agree of course with craig... buy books ... then buy knives... lesson the worry.i have been preaching that for a bit...lol... but in the meantime here is probably one of the best camillus resources their is online.i have actually printed all of the pdf's and put them on CD in case this site is removed. this isnt the home page ,this link takes you right to the heart of all the catalogs and everything they have.its not everything of course..but like i said its a start and i love it. you are gonna want to save this site. when i was into collecting camillus i used it almost everyday! http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Catalogs/Catalogs.htm IMPORTANT -YOU HAVE TO LITERALLY CLICK ON WHERE IT SAYS THE NAME OF THE CATALOG.NOT THE PICTURE OF THE CATALOG.the way its all laid out in pdf..just a wonderful job.. those who have not seen this im golad to have shown you.
Aug 13, 2012
peter force
HEY ROBERT DO YOU HAVE PICS OF THE KISSING knife? with it be KC ,5 blade stockman seems much more their pattern style then a 5 blade whittler.if you had pic i could help you with that for sure!
Aug 13, 2012
Clint Thompson
Ron I right there with you. If it looks good to me then I buy it. If the knife is older and I need to brush up on the history....just that much more fun.
Aug 14, 2012
ken benson
Ron I like that old Scout . That would have spoken to me too. Have you ever tried Flitz cleaner/polish paste? It removes rust and dirt, but has so very little cut by way of abrasive you are really not removing any material.
Aug 14, 2012
Tobias Gibson
Ron,
My bet is the USA has rubbed off as it should appear centered just below the New York Line The knife most likely predates WWII because of the material, the shield and the can opener. Of not it was made in the late forties after the war. I think by 1942, war time production kicked in and the shields were USA, USMC, and a variety of other knives made for like the mdical, signal, chemical corps etc.
Aug 14, 2012
Featured
Craig Henry
Ron "TUNA" Dumeah said;
This is how I mostly collect my knives. It looks good then buy it. They gotta speak to me.
I think there's a law against that Ron! You are required to buy the "in" thing. You mean you don't want 4,200 Case Trappers? LOL!
Aug 14, 2012
Clint Thompson
Thanks Ron.
Aug 14, 2012
Clint Thompson
The tangs being marked "USA" are not always being done. If the knife is old enough then it is not uncommon they are not marked in such a manner.
Aug 14, 2012