And, speaking of S&M! I love the looks of the Keystone Kamp Knife that Jan posted! Also, sweet!

It was surprizingly not that expensive, as compared to a couple of Case XX stockmans. Less than a c note by a bit.

Wow, if you got that for less than a C note, you scored! I like the way the did the S and M etch on the master blade. Very cool!

Beautiful S&M gunstock Gerald, nice!

Gerald, that MOP is beautiful. I am envious...I want one

Nice Gerald. I envy you for that gorgeous pearl!

I have a Queen catalog and the knives in it look to be the same as on their site.  I also see a torched stag knife in AG Russell's catalog.  Are the ones in the catalog the only ones being produced now?  Is any other Queen knife I may see discontinued?  Does it have anything to do with the new ownership?  Everyone seems to be excited about the new ownership hoping for better (?) knives.  If the only ones being manufactured now are in the current catalog, is the quality of the others lacking?  The one in the picture I'm looking at is beautiful but it's just a picture.  To show further ignorance, is "torched stag" bone or antler?  I'm thinking and hoping antler.  Bone is usually identifiedd as smooth or jigged it seems.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack,

I am probably not the best one to answer your questions, but here goes:  In the modern era, Queen was owned by Servotronics (who also owns/owned Ontario Knives, Franklinville, NY).  Don't know if there is a change in quality under the new ownership (Daniels, 2012), but I have some Queen knives produced under Servotronics ownership which have good craftsmanship.

Stag is antler. Jigged or smooth bone is cow bone, and oddly, I think most of the cow bone used in making knife scales in the U.S. is imported from South America - could be wrong about this.

Thanks Howard.  Cow bone from South America???  We don't have enough cows in the USA??????  Hope our cows don't find out.  They may go on strike. lol  Maybe PITA objected to using American cow bone? :)

Hahahaha.  You know, Jack it might be a question of organization.  Maybe whoever processes meat here didn't think of selling the leg bones to knife companies, or maybe Jello gets the gelatin, and fertilizer companies, etc. get the bone meal (ground bone).  Or, maybe Duncan Renaldo (Cisco Kid) or Ricardo Montalban, got South American interests to sell bone to U.S. knife manufacturers.

Almost missed this, Jack.  PITA  is bread.  PETA is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or as I like to think of it: People Eating Tasty Animals.

Have you heard of dyslexia?  My hands have it.  I don't know how often when typeing I hit the key with the correct finger on the wrong hand.  lol   I do that A LOT for some reason.  Thanks for the correction though.  AND, I like your understanding of the acronymn. :)  Maybe that's what my fingers were thinking also. :)

Some time back, I learned on a WR Case & Sons factory tour that Zebu cattle shin bone is often  used since it is denser than found on other breeds.  

I read too that even the OLD knife companies mainly used bone from South America.

In reference to your question regarding torched stag or bone, either of them can be torched. The knife companies  should make that clear in their advertising. I have never torched bone but I have on stag. Done properly on stag it turns different shades of yellow to orange with some darkening to charcoal to black on the high spots. It has to be done carefully as it is easy to over do it.

Jim, what do you use to "torch" the bone?  I have a small propane torch.  Will that work?

Jim, also does the torching go deep or is it just on the surface?  Should the bone be finish prior to torching?  If you sand it afterward how does that effect it? Thanks for any info.

Jack

OK, let me see if I can catch up LOL

There are still some US makers that purchase their cow bone from right here is the US.  I know that Ken previously did.  I will ask about currently

and yes Jack, some of them do torch with a small propane torch LOL.  Depending on the quantity they are looking to do.  It is a way of controlling  so as not to over do it.  

What is in the catalog is not the entire line and the line is growing.  Just yesterday we found out the camp knife makes its first appearance by the end of this week

How about when you kill a deer?  I assume you can use the anglers for handles.  How about the deer bones?  I think when you kill something you should use everything you need.  Of course not many people need the bones.  And some racks I've seen on walls would have the owner/hunter shaking all over to suggest he take it down and cut a couple of knife scales out of it. lol

Jack,

When Case Brothers started a factory behind the family home in Little Valley, NY they would harvest antler sheds each year in the woods around their home for stag to make scales.  Deer bone is too brittle and thin for knife scales - need a "beefier" bone.

I will try again - Winterbottom%2C%20Carter%20%26%20Co.-6.jpg

I thought I would add this quote from an article I wrote for Knife World Magazine this past February that may a little of Queens history and its use of imported bone during the post WWII years until the late 1960.

“They were the principle users of Winterbottom bone during this time from 1947 until the late 1960s. Fred Sampson, who was the materials manager at Queen during this time, told me that on many occasions Queen purchased that bone directly from Brazil and had it shipped to the Samuel Wintertbottom Sons Company for cutting, jigging and staining.  Queen continued to use Winterbottom bone until the late 1960s”.

I will also try to post a photo of The Winterbottom Carter & Co. Bone Factory in Egg Harbor, NJ. 1914. Photograph courtesy of Egg Harbor City Historical Society.

in -

For those of you that dont know this gentleman.  Mr David Clark!  The Queen historian, an extremely well earned title.

David do you know if Queen is using domestic bone at this time?

I think they buy most of their bone from sub-contractors that jig and dye the bone.

Is the bone still from south America? I don't know. Argentina was a big supplier of bone to the cutlery companies in the USA in the past. Perhaps someone on the thread knows if Case also imports their bone.

Thank you David, for your contribution. We are glad to have such a great historian as one of our members. Besides our cutting up, education of the knife hobby is so very important.

Case does import their bone which does not surprise me.  The sheer numbers of the scales they do, it works best dyed and jigged before coming into the factory

I think I remember seeing bone being dyed on the Case factory tour, but as Jan said, Case uses so much bone, they probably outsource as well.  As I recall, Case does jigging as well, but perhaps not all the jigging.

Here is a photo of a rail car shipment of bone to the Winterbottom factory. Samuel  Winterbottom is in the front row with the apron and tie.Winterbottom%2C%20Carter%20%26%20Co.-5.jpg

David, Love those old time pictures, thanks for posting.

David,

That pic is just awesome.  Dont even put the bone in boxes...just fill a box car and be done

FOLKS

I hear that Jennie Moore is going to be on Knives Live tonight!

What is knives live?  TV show?

Jack,

SMKW (Smoky Mountain Knife Works) [smkw.com] sells knives on a TV show - similar to Cutlery Corner (Frost Cutlery).  Some cable companies carry both shows, and some do not (DISH does, Comcast/Xfinity does not, and I don't think Verizon FIOS does either.  Jan has a link posted here on iKC so you can watch the Friday night show live on your computer, and chat with iKC members at the same time.

So how many of us have the camp knife on order?

OMG the camp knife came in today and I think I am in love

That really is quite a looker you got there, Miss Jan! Love S&M's keystone shield.

Really nice Jan

Very nice, Jan.  Love the Keystone shield.

Good looking S&M!!

Nice...hard to beat stag. Great looking knife.

Love those handles.

And who can go camping without going fishing?

Great fish knife.  Beats my old yellow handled STAG (Ireland) all to pieces.

The first real knife I ever owned was a fish knife. Never caught a "bottle cap fish" though so I never got to use the opener.

That's a pretty fishing knife!

That's a great looking fishing knife, Jan !

Dad bought this knife for me when I was 10 or so.  I remember it clearly.  I have carried it with me everywhere I've gone in life.  I keep stumbling on it even though I haven't used it since kidhood.  Never thought about what brand it was until recently.  It's not a special release knife or anything.  Just a knife that cleaned a few squirrels and cut some fire wood, etc.  Bought around 1969 or so.  Any info is appreciated on model, handle material, blade steel, etc. but not needed.  Just a knife Dad bought me that will belong to my son then grandson someday.  Doubt if it sees any squirrel cleaning though. Tons of squirrels live in my yard actually.  Wife sees them and says "cute".  I look at them and say "dinner". lol  Truth be told, I watch them myself.

Jack, really enjoyed reading your post. That knife is priceless. I don't know anything about it except that knives like that, that have been given or passed down are packed with meaning. They are "The Talking Knives". Thanks for posting and sharing with us.

Great that you still have the knife your dad gave you, and a Queen!  As I recall, cheap foreign knives were getting a foothold here in the late 60's & 70's so your dad had to wade through a bunch of knock-offs to get to the Queen.

Great knife and story, thanks.

The day Dad bought this knife we were going hunting and stopped at this little store where we always stop to get ammo or whatever we need.  I saw this knife, showed it to Dad, he looked it over and set it on the counter.  Talk about a happy kid. :) A new rifle wouldn't have made me happier. :)  Funny what we remember.