Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on January 23, 2018 at 20:35

Ok,I found the "stock" #110 on the website..........at $92.00!! Is it just me or is that not a bit much for a "stock" 110?? I smell a fish.

Permalink Reply by John Burton on January 23, 2018 at 20:56

That is Bucks MSRP, regular Buck dealers get their knives for 50% off that price. I'm sure large retailers will continue to set the price they want to pay.

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on January 23, 2018 at 21:18

Well, actually the #110 was listed on their site at $49.99 retail for years on end, as recently as last month, I know because I surf their site regularly. Now all of a sudden they are $92 for the stock version at the same time they introduce less expensive models. I suspect they may be trying to phase out the more expensive-to-manufacture "stock" version, (with brass bolsters and wood handles), and are gradually replacing it with alternate, less expensive-to-manufacture versions. I definitely believe they wouldn't dare to publicly announce the demise of their A #1 product, instead I wonder if they are taking the more costly version out the back door while we are all ooing and awing their "new" stuff hoping we won't notice. I'm sure I'm not the only one to quake at a $92 "stock" 110 price, a $42+ increase in their posted retail in the span of a month just desn't make sense unless they are trying to phase the version out. Something is up, not sure what, but a ninety dollar Buck 110 is suspicious, (and somewhat outrageous IMHO).

John Burton said:

That is Bucks MSRP, regular Buck dealers get their knives for 50% off that price. I'm sure large retailers will continue to set the price they want to pay.

Permalink Reply by John Burton on January 23, 2018 at 22:56

Buck Dealer MSRP price list

2014 = $73

2015 = $77

2016 = $80

2017 = $82

2018 ? will not know until the new catalog comes in March. When I go to their web site it shows the standard Folding Hunter at $82 and for $7 more they will engrave it. The finger groove version is $92.

I did see their new Buck a month knife (new for this year) for January is $90 it's a limited edition of 100 knives.

Remember these are Bucks full MSRP prices, you will pay that if you buy direct from the factory. If you find a dealer you will get a big discount (about 60% of MSRP).

JB

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on January 23, 2018 at 23:35

Well, you are probably right, but I looked at a 110 today at the local hardware store, their retail price for a NIB 110 was $49.99, ebay has new 110's for $35-$45, they are currently going for $39.99 at SMKW, and that "MSRP" price isn't to be found anywhere in any of those places. I was in the musical instrument business for years, so I am familiar with the scam that is a listed MSRP price, nobody EVER pays MSRP unless they are just dumb; why would Buck cut off their nose to spite their face by listing such an unrealistic price on their website? Do they hope some fool will go to their site and pay double for a knife? Why would they be so foolish? Are they bound by marketing agreements we don't know about? If so that is a foolish way to run a knife business in this modern age where foreign manufacturing threatens to eliminate US makers altogether. Like I said, you are probably right, but I still believe I saw $49.99 on the website recently, that has been their "street price", (or "Minimum Advertised Price" or MAP), for years, and after what recently happened to Queen, I see such things as Buck's confusing & misleading website, and them doggedly sticking to a stinkin' thinkin', old fashioned corporate way of thinking as a prelude to disaster for them. They better get a clue or they will follow Queen into oblivion.

Permalink Reply by Old Guy on May 21, 2018 at 14:00

Hi all,

New guy here. First post. Happy to be here. The first time I ran across this "on-the-makers-site" high price thing was with Spyderco. Outrageous prices on the site! I scratched my head and thought I'll just go to my favorite Billy-Joe-Bob Knives site and check out the price there. Sure enough, BJB Knives had it cheaper. Kept thinking why would the manufacturer try to sell at such a ridiculous price on their site?

Then I thought the answer might be because they aren't trying to sell knives on their home site at all. What they are doing is taking care of the stores that sell their stuff by directing you to those store, in an indirect kind of way. Obviously I'm not going to pay more than I have to, so I'll buy it a BJB Knives. The manufacturer is happy because you bought his product (he doesn't care where you bought it). BJB Knives is happy because they got a sale (and need to restock). I'm happy because I think I got a good deal. Everybody's happy!! Any thoughts on my thought?     

Syd Carr said:

Well, you are probably right, but I looked at a 110 today at the local hardware store, their retail price for a NIB 110 was $49.99, ebay has new 110's for $35-$45, they are currently going for $39.99 at SMKW, and that "MSRP" price isn't to be found anywhere in any of those places. I was in the musical instrument business for years, so I am familiar with the scam that is a listed MSRP price, nobody EVER pays MSRP unless they are just dumb; why would Buck cut off their nose to spite their face by listing such an unrealistic price on their website? 

FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on May 25, 2018 at 23:28

Old Guy, I completely agree with your thoughts.  Further, the manufacturer could, theoretically, artificially inflate their MSRP to satisfy their licensed dealers in the form of a trade practice (as opposed to making it a written part of the contract) in order to render price gouging (and/or other illegal practices).  I'm sure there are some legal precedents regarding MSRP's in the context of price gouging & other conduct prohibited under consumer protection laws, but I have no idea what the laws that govern these manufacturers' practices actually require.  You've given me a new research projects -- thanks  It's going to be a fun one, I can already tell.

Thing is, when you've got a manufacturer advertising some high MSRP (that of course they're going to charge anyone willing to buy it directly from the website), with dealers selling the same thing for significantly less, there's clearly some collusion -- the next question is whether this practice is illegal, but the bigger question is whether it should be illegal, and to the latter question I say yes, absolutely.  Even if a practice is legal, that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do (or as one of my professors used to say, "Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD".)

And no, not everyone is happy -- at east not those people who bought the knife at some price they though was a bargain, only to find they've just been manipulated into THINKING they got a good deal -- & then feeling totally had, scammed, or taken advantage of.  And that's exactly what happened.

One of the funny knife sellers is TOPS Knives.  They also do the hyper-inflated MSRP on their website.  But they ALSO contract with other companies to make knives that are similar to (or even identical to) some of their stock models, they put the other knife company's name on the knife, & then the rebranded knife sells for WAY more than the original TOPS version...  It would be horrible if TOPS was actually trying to promote its knives to buyers of the other brand if it wasn't just such a stupid strategy.  I notice TOPS doesn't really do this very often, but the most egregious examples were the knives TOPS made for Browning a few years back.

Thing is, this MSRP tactic is clearly still around for one reason and one reason only -- it's making money for the knife companies and the knife retailers.  It doesn't benefit consumers in the least -- & in fact actually has the effect of deceiving consumers.

Permalink Reply by Old Guy on May 26, 2018 at 11:02

"but the bigger question is whether it should be illegal, and to the latter question I say yes, absolutely."

Just because you find this pricing method distasteful doesn't mean that it should be illegal. 

The consumer is not being coerced or forced to make a purchase. It isn't a case of my way or the highway. If the product and price are agreeable to the consumer, make the purchase and if not, don't. The ability to choose whether to spend or not, and through which venue, is available. If the consumer doesn't like the price, simply don't spend the bucks. Vote with your dollars.

The TOPS Knives analogy is interesting although not germane to the discussion as there was no mention of rebranding until you brought it up as a point of contention. 

Your closing paragraph is also interesting as you state that the MSRP tactic doesn't benefit the consumer, that it is deceitful. I don't think it is deceitful. It is not a hidden tactic at all. It is there in big capital letters for all to see, MSRP. 

I have always been under the impression that in our society, a manufacturer was free to set whatever price it wanted for it's product. Please correct me if I am wrong but is that not the basis of free enterprise? 

FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on June 16, 2018 at 9:44

Definitely fair points, Old Guy, and I definitely appreciate your response, & I sincerely apologize for any negativity in my response.  

I'd also like to take this moment to welcome you to the site, & to say (I think I speak for everyone here), that I hope you'll continue to read & post.  Even if some of us get cranky at times, we're actually the nicest group of any of the knife forums, & that's one of the biggest reasons I'm here as opposed to the others.  So again, I hope you'll continue to visit & post (& no moderator put me up to this, I really appreciate the courtesy of the iKC members, especially after my experiences on Bladeforums, which sadly were often perpetrated by certain moderators -- but I digress).

Have a great weekend, OldGuy, & may you acquire many new knives (regardless of their MSRP's, or MAP's, or whatever the kids are using to set knife prices these days)!

Permalink Reply by Old Guy on June 16, 2018 at 15:41

Hope you have a great weekend, too. Just to make sure the hatchet stays buried and to get back on topic:

FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on June 16, 2018 at 17:47

Yep, THAT hatchet is buried.  I have a couple other hatchets I should be writing about instead (namely, my Husqvarna hatchet -- though I prefer my Husqvarna Carpenter's Axe -- & my Firestone wood carving hatchet), but now I'm thinking about a couple tomahawks too; but again, I digress).

And to stay on topic, that is a really nice 110.

Actually, my favorite 110 was last year's Father's Day gift from my wife & kids, let me see if I can attach a photo here...

Permalink Reply by Old Guy on June 16, 2018 at 17:58

Father's Day gift! Very nice! Grats - that's the best! How do you like the drop point? I've got one and it seems to be able to handle everything as well as the standard, but to be honest I kinda look at a situation twice before starting in whereas with the regular blade, I kinda just go at it. Guess that means I feel less confident with the drop.  

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