Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by charles taylor on June 27, 2011 at 20:14

well said Don...

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Ruhan Venter on June 28, 2011 at 9:11

Hi guys,  i'm still a novice bladesmith but i have made a few damascus steel billits.  It is true that there are many different alloys being used in combination these days to make damascus, they all give different effects in the final product.  It is my belief that you use alloys in your damascus to suit the purpose of the final blade, so for something that needs to handle some shock and still maintain edge, a low carbon steel 1020 or other can be added in low quantities to aid in the absorbsion of the shock.  52100 doesn't like shock but holds a beautifull edge for long, so using this for smaller blades is better...  the list is endless in the different combinations...  the addition of the high nickel containing steel is greatly for astetics as the nickel doesn't etch with ferric chloride and thus gives you a nice silver pattern in your steel.  Some of the stainless steel billits do contain some carbon steels which then in turn makes them stain-resistant really...

Permalink Reply by Bill Harvey on June 28, 2011 at 12:18

Ruhan's comments make the most sense.  (Add he apparently has his spell-check turned on unlike some out the rest of you / us !)

Damascus (the proper name of a city in Syria -hence the capitalization) is a worthy subject for the student of metallurgical history.  Otherwise, its manufacture in obsolete, and -by today's standards- absurdly labor intensive.  Far more interesting, IMHO, is vanadium steel -more useful too.  England and cast iron, France and steel and finally Germany  and chemicals (and explosives!).  Each technology maturing and being supplanted my a newer and better technology.  For the student of economic history, the interesting bit is that each technology has an installed (expensive) technological base that left each country behind the eight ball re. the new technology.  Vanadium steel, for example, impressed Henry Ford so much that he brought the technology to America for his Model T.

And while on the subject, the best dang chef's knives I've ever owned were vanadium, and as for stainless -f'get'about'dit.

 

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on June 28, 2011 at 14:20

Thanks Ruhan and Bill. Let's all try get back on the subject " carbon--damascus steel knives" .

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 30, 2011 at 18:51

.

 

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 30, 2011 at 19:40

LOL, Sorry about that Don didn't realize I had anything in there

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 1, 2011 at 5:53

ROFL, yes you may

Permalink Reply by 0lwfb00b9sbb0 on July 8, 2011 at 15:20

hi gang,

just wanted to throw in a little history and clarification.

the original damascus steel is not the same as the stuff we call damascus these days.

the original was invented in india (sot syria) about 2000 years ago.

it was a crucible steel, and exhibited random swirls of carbides throughout the steel.

the original technique for making this steel was lost in the 1700s, although countless examples of old damascus blades survive.

modern attempts to recreate the original damascus technique led to some very close approximations, which are now known as wootz or bulat, because laminated pattern-welded steel wrongly appropriated the name "damascus."

pattern-welded steel has also been around for over 2000 years, made by germanic and cetic tribes in europe.

it was more decorative than functional, due to its use of soft iron as a layering material, and faded out in the middle ages.

the chinese employed techniques of hammering and folding steel with varying carbon contents to forge swords for centuries.

this technology was later adapted by japanese and filipino smiths, and would seem to be the likely progenitor to modern pattern-welded steel.

james ivy listed several makers of quality pattern-welded steel.

i would add germany's markus balbach to the list.

he's responsible for the pattern-welded steel found in hartkopf, weidmannsheil and puma knives.

most pattern-welded steel consists of at least one type of high carbon tool steel, like 1095, and another steel with a high nickel content, like 15n20.

this will give the highest amount of contrast in the pattern while still allowing a high degree of strength.

the different steels are welded together using flux during the forging process.

the contrast is achieved by etching the ground and polished blade with a strong corrosive like ferric acid.

this will oxidize the tool steel, but leave the nickel steel unaffected.

as with all steels, the hardening and tempering process are extremely important.

this is why the best pattern-welded steels are made of different steels which utilize similar hardening and tempering processes.

for instance, you wouldn't want to combine an oil-cooled steel with air-cooled and water-cooled steels.

high-grade pattern-welded steel is useless if not properly heat treated.

hope this helps the discussion.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on July 8, 2011 at 16:42

Thanks for the imput. You wouldn't have a carbon steel or damascus knife you could show us, we love looking at knives.

Permalink Reply by 0lwfb00b9sbb0 on July 8, 2011 at 23:15

here's a weidmannsheil with markus balbach carbon pattern-welded steel.

another one in mother of pearl.

another one.

here's a case tiny toothpick in mother of pearl.

a case seahorse whittler in stag.

a case stockman.

almost all of my knives are carbon steel, so that might be a tough one to narrow down.

any requests?

:D

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on July 9, 2011 at 8:05

Those are great Michael, If you take one knife at a time and tell us about it. Start with the German ones theres not much talk about those. Thanks buddy.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 9, 2011 at 17:12

The weidmannsheil.  It is very nice

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