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Permalink Reply by Gus Marsh on July 23, 2013 at 21:55

I think someone replaced all the blades on that Remington Knife. Most of the Remington Knives that I have seen from that era have worn out blades, meaning that they were sharpened many times. While the handles and bolsters look normal, the blades look too sharp, meaning no wear and tear. I know of several people that are experts in rebuilding old knives, some do it better than others.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 23, 2013 at 22:27

Gus,

Thanks for the input.  I know your our go to expert for the Remingtons.  I appreciate your having a look

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 23, 2013 at 22:32

Craig,

I know many makers that feel that way, they were made to be tools...use them

But like you, I cannot bring myself to do it

Craig Henry said:

There's a guy on another forum that is carrying (!) a VERY nice condition Case XX large Jack knife. I made mention that I couldn't bring myself to carry such a nice fairly rare old knife that is still in such good condition. His reply was "They were made for using"! I think some people don't have the same feeling for preserving history as I do. There's enough good new knives around to use, I'd just put that one up and admire it in a cabinet. But, that's the way I am.

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Permalink Reply by peter force on July 24, 2013 at 1:27

in this EPIC-SUPER LONG -reply- are some basic tips that will help you in the furture plus  a lot of other information that i consider great to know and happy i as taught.plus some story because anyone that knows me ,knows i bable,i am working on it but this is some good babble. i hope this helps you and all who read this post.

i know i have brought up at least a few times starting a thread on fakes.im not sure how starting a group goes on IKC but if i were allowed to start one that i thought was missing  a FAKE thread of sorts is what i would start.

i cant stand those who pollute our great hobby with trash-and the "fakesters"...i mean with passion!..

let me just say this once -repaired with documentation is a great thing... you are keeping history of some cutlery firms ALIVE! ...and it can be fun to learn how to ad say filework to your knives if you wanted.

i read the guy said he thought it was worked..if he is a long time seller HE KNOWS IT WAS..if you found this on a table at a flea market for 5$ ..then maybe not.

 this is all just meant to teach..{lots are scared to touch this subject,not me.i think folks are worried about hurting feelings.some fellaz have expressed to me that they can clearly tell that a new knife listed as a GREAT FIND is a fake but they dont want to be the one to tell them.IMO,being taught about fakes just so happen to happen to me within the first 1-3 years of collecting by a lot of fellaz that were very ,very against it as well...my collection and my son who will inherit it are much better off for the lessons i have learned.ignorance in the collecting of anything is far from bliss.

 i have bought fakes from folks who have been burned to use as a teaching tool.as their are those out thier that are so good at faking{remember on ebay alone you pretty much with all the boxes,piles of shields,i sometimes see auctions for 200+CASE STAG shields from one era go for hundreds of dollars,WHY would a pile of shields sell for 300+$$,who needs 200 of the same BOX? THE FAKESTERS! ..the first build and sold knife will cover the cost of all the parts that were needed.what you have are guys that could build a great knife,taking a shortcut and just ripping folks off.if i have been burned i dont know it,YET!..

 another tip- on the bay you need to watch for the guy who all month has great knives and once a month has a fire sale on PARTS KNIVES and their is about 100+ of them with all the good parts ripped of them. also look at the sellers ,BUYER feedback..see what your knife seller is buying! ..i have lots of tips about the bay and knives.again ths is where a thread would be great as my brain is trying to fit everythig into this post...

 i reccomend if ever burned with a true fake..to etch on the blade or something FAKE{IMO,again thats what i do}regardless of what some fellaz have told me i have watched folks get ripped off ,say the right thing,and do the wrong by relisting on the bay or dumping it elsewhere} ok now that i got all that out...i apologize...just this subject gets my goat really bad!

this entire knife pictured above has been worked up.lots of dead giveaways that this reply alone would have steared you clear of this knife.

we got one brass pin on one bolster and not on the other.fact that the knife was taken apart.

we have the bone that has been ripped off another knife. wherever the bone came from ..im not sure of that..but think of this.. look how pocket worn that bone is and not the blades..that just doesnt make actual sense,does it?{you have to ask yourself this when actually buying the knife,DOES THE ENTIRE KNIFE MATCH UP VERSE- HOW OLD IT IS AND HOW MUCH USE IT WAS PUT THROUGH.}

A BIG ONE- i hope helps for the future and is a big for buying knives that are pre 1920ish...SPUN PINS vs PEENED. on the bootom pic i see 2 spun pins...and one peened pin that was just smashed into the already spun whole to fill it up. see that very large circle around the pin to the far left,bottom picture..see how its is spun...and around the spun pin is a circle.that is where the remaining piece of the original  head of the spun pin once was at.NOW the pin all the way to the right on the scale/handle as you can see has been peened in to fill the entire whole that was once their from the spun pin.if your wondering what i mean by peened vs spun please mail me.

 i dont know the exact date but i know it was the early 20s that USA started spining pins. im far from an expert but have spent a lot of my knifing  documenting FAKES{..and even bought them and have a collection of the{about 20} just to teach... also remember their are places knives get dirty where they onlycan get cleaned by taking the knife apart.also another tip.make sure to look to see if you see that the shield has been pinned...and for other pins to lineup..look into the belly of the knife with a gls and look real good... i have seen pinned bone ,that only has pins on outside-where they didnt bother repinning after switching handles.. they just glued it right on.. always look into the belly of vintage knives.i always bring a glass and 1-2 pocket lights with me to shows.

i just keep seeing more and more im sorry..i see the shield and whatever went on their..  also you can see GRINDMARKS all the way down even on the tang.grind marks on the tag of a knife unlss you know its supposed to be like that{a real good reason to own a ot of knife books on the knives you re going to collect}...another thing fellaz will do...grind off what was their...but to lazy to buff just the tang and leave the entire grind...

this also leads me to aother thing too look for.ground down tangs to fit a new stamp.you can easily see if you have the knife in your hand or from a good pic when this has been done.most have to take the knife apart to do ths and in doing so clean and grind down the entire tang. leaving you plenty of evdience of his work.

 i am far from an expert...and some guys out their are making fakes but have actual dies and blades and boxes and 200 shields and are just assembling the pieces in a workshop.

anyway with fakes or reworks when not documented and sold as the real thing  or whatever just P's me off to no end... anytime you want a counterfeit sticky i say lets start one up!...and have been saying..not sure the hold up.seeing folks get burned sucks and im gettig tired of directing folks to sites i dont like..  

i am no expert....i just study and read...like i alweays say and post everywhere...BUY KNIFE BOOKS THEN BUY KNIVES!  ...final tip.. when buying knives...just trust one person..yourself.i dont mean dont trust anyone in your life.i mean YOUR GUT!  if you think their is something wrong..their probably is.- i know this was long..-i hope i helped-

 

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Permalink Reply by peter force on July 24, 2013 at 1:32

kaleb-MM...is awesome robert... i have a few reworks and 2 customs from him!  whats funny is i just mailed him about 3-4 days ago asking about a knife that needs serious work..celluloid!..arghhh!! ..and agree i will fix any tool including a knife before i toss it!..who am i kidding..i have a pile of broken knives!...some are in the BONEYARD!..where the only thing left that is awesme is the bone!

Robert Burris said:

I think the single blade may have been changed. I could be wrong, that's just my opinion. I'm a bit more certain that all the blades have been buffed and polished. After all these years and no patina...hummmm. You asked what we think, so.... I am far from an expert. That's still a very nice knife. I have no problem with it being reworked, as long as it's represented that way and a good is done on it. My oldest Remington Bullet knife, I had to change the scale opposite the bullet. It's been restored by the Musk Rat Man, {a member on here} an he did a wonderful job. It was either fix it or throw it away. Well I couldn't see throwing away, such a fine old knife.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on July 24, 2013 at 7:26

Great to have someone like Peter give his advice. I really value it. Glad to have him as a friend. And I appreciate all the comments from everyone. I am paranoid about Fakes. I have one Russell Barlow that has been ID'd as a fake German counterfeit - nice knife, but a fake - other than that this Remington is the only Suspect I own. I hesitated to buy it, but the Bone was so beautiful I couldn't resist taking a chance. Now, with many opinions about this knife - could we take a poll?

1.  Is this knife a "re-worked" vintage Remington=worthy to be called a Remington and to keep and enjoy?

OR

2. Is it a fake, a counterfeit - NOT worthy to be called a Remington at all?

Thanks for the comments.

Ken "The Talking Knives"

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on July 24, 2013 at 10:26

First, I want to thank Peter for his advise to us, that might be naive in our knife evaluation and buying. I bought a French counterfeit years ago, I wish I still had it to show ya'll. Secondly, I want to say there's a big difference between an honest guy restoring an old knife and a crook making a fake. Lastly, Ken I don't know the intentions of the person that redid your knife but if it's not done in the spirit of "trying to make it close to original" I'd back off. There's other knives to buy.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on July 24, 2013 at 10:38

Robert, I don't know who re-worked it but the guy I bought it from did tell me he thought it was re-worked. I think he was honest about it. The decision to buy the knife was mine, again, the handles were so nice, I couldn't resist.

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on July 24, 2013 at 14:29

The whole time it's in your collection, it has an admirer. When the time comes {if at all} just be sure to tell everyone it's history. Enjoy it.

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Parham on July 24, 2013 at 18:39

I too think it's been buffed, reworked, and the shiled is not the original. HOWEVER, It's a nice piece and if you're not a fanatic about all original on everything, this would be a nice addition to a collection. An educational piece to teach beginners what to look for in reworked knives would also be a calling for this item.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on July 24, 2013 at 19:03

Robert and Chuck - Good advice. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by peter force on July 29, 2013 at 3:47

hey guys thanx to al of those who read that EPIC answer..i know it was big...but their is so much to learn.. honestly one of the best things to do besides BUY BOOKS AND STUDY WHAT YOU WANT TO COLLECT... is to get online and study the cutlery industry and when diferent things started taking place... like something as simple as going to case knives and studying their jigs... also certain knives out their only have certain shields ... but then get even ore involved.. like "when did companies first begin to spin pins insted of peeningthem.. that one tid bit alone wil help you collect vinatge older then 1918 say. if i want to collect a knife... i try my hardest to find catalog prints on them first..so literally i am shopping with a catalog frm 80 years ago but looking at knives now... even if you cant afford them save the images..mark them and use them.

lasy but not least something you may have heard before"read the knife" read its pins,the jigging pattern of te gne...or whatever handle it is.  IF YOUR GOAL is to buiy a nice vinatge knife and you spot one thing..and then two...LET IT BE!... unless of course thats what you wamt for something.  keep in mind the more you dig..the more sometimes you find out things that are sometimes very very shady that have happened over the course of cutlery history.like all business it is not immune from greed.   I WISH IT WAS.  ,osyt of what you will read though will i promise you fascinate you as much as the knives themselves!-over and out-PF

if i could take a poll it would be about refetrence materials and what everyone has and how many books and ectect.

 

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