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Don't have stones? Need stones? Here are recommendations

On other forums I've seen several people ask for sharpening tool recommendations in seperate threads or discussions. People recommend what they like and use. Then, a year later one of the recommendors makes another recommendation of different stones because of experimenting and playing around. Does that make the first recommendation mute? No, just a different choice usually.

So I figured if people who have definite opinions on their tools they can post here so anyone wanting recommendations can have a single place to start. So here goes.

I have tried several different stones and systems in the past 5-6 years. Especially in the past 8 months or so and have settled on what I am going to stick with and recommend to anyone wanting my opinion. They can either spend the money on what I recommend or they can do what I did. Spend hundreds of dollars trying different stones, systems, strops, compounds, etc. To top it all off I have sold a stone to fund another type to try then ended up selling or trading it and buying another stone to replace the one I sold because I prefer it. Sounds terrible doesn't it? Well, I don't think it has been. Now I have what I like and can resist the next recommendation to try a $100+ stone that I haven't used yet. I believe with all my heart if a person wants a nice set of good (great in my mind) quality sharpening stones he/she can buy these and never buy another one. He/she will spend in the neighborhood of $200 max. These stones will sharpen any blade steel you can buy. Forget about NOT being able to sharpen a knife with a blade steel hardness as high as Rc 65. Most decent knife blades fall into the Rc hardness of 57-60. Higher than that and the stones of lesser quality will require a long time to sharpen the harder steels. And that can be a serious pain.

Here are my recommendations (red are essential to get right away or very soon over time IMO. Blue can be one or the other, similar results. I do recommend one of these though. If you are going to buy in seperate purchases leave one or both of these for last. You may find the DMT fine grit is all you want or need to finish with.)

DMT (diamond stones)

coarse grit 6" or 8"

fine grit 6" or 8"

extra-fine grit 6" or 8"

If cost is not an issue I believe the longer stones are preferred but I use the 6" stones a lot for pocket knives. Longer stones are easier for longer knives like kitchen and hunting/camping knives.

Spyderco (ceramic stones)

Fine grit 8" stone (Similar to the extra-fine DMT stone)

Ultra Fine grit 8" stone (extremely optional) I have owned one, know what it can do and love it but can live without it. Great performing stone though for the ultimate smooth razor edge on a knife. I just don't need that type of edge. I will get another one the next time a surprise bag of money falls in my lap. lol

A single site to order any of these is cutleryshoppe.com. Best prices and customer service of any site I've dealt with. There are a couple other good sites I like but none are "better" than this one and he has all of the things I mentioned above.

A big factor in my decision on what to use is cleanliness. The diamond or ceramic stones can be used dry, no water or oil. You can use water on the diamond stones and some prefer it but either way (wet or dry) is perfectly fine.

STROPS:

Should be another discussion but for starters I'd recommend the one on knivesplus.com. It is about $25 I think and it works great. You never even need more compound. If you want to get serious (or stupid lol) there are lots of other products that get VERY refined results. Most of these ARE NOT CHEAP! Also, unless you are really obsessive you will now have everything you will ever NEED. If you WANT more, have fun. :)

Do you want a sharpening system? I'll leave that for another discussion I think. I have used the DMT aligner and Edge Pro Apex. Aligner is very good, EP is great. The price indicates the performance difference very accurately I believe. More on these later or in another discussion.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 29, 2013 at 20:36

Its hard to describe but I never way able to get that edge about maybe a 1/16 up (or less) just stayed thick.

Steve Hanner said:

Well that sure is sharper than what I could put on it! What are your thoughts on the knife?

Permalink Reply by Ron Cooper on August 29, 2013 at 20:38

Nice work, Jack!

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 29, 2013 at 21:26

Steve, I didn't get a chance to cut anything with it. The question now is how long the edge will stay sharp. Will it loose the shaving sharpness but retain what I call a "working edge" or will it just get dull to the point it's unusable. I'll cut down a few trees tomorrow. lol The steel came off the edge easily so I don't think it is real hard. I'm no expert about that though. The stones I used remove steel with no problem from blades with an Rc hardness of 64-66. So because the steel came off fast doesn't mean it's real soft. The edge retention will tell the tale I guess. The handle is comfortable and feels sturdy.

Jack

Steve Hanner said:

Well that sure is sharper than what I could put on it! What are your thoughts on the knife?

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 29, 2013 at 21:55

Interesting and it maybe soft not sure, it may be 1095 I just don't know I bought the knife off evilBay and the seller claimed it was an AG Russell(of course we now know not the case) so who knows what it is and lets face it when was the last time we had steel from Japan in a knife.. its rare and goes back to at least late 70's and early 80's. in my opinion. Not much of a handle but it does feel kind of solid so who knows. Whittle a few bowling pins and see what happens? Thanks for trying it Jack glad you had some success with it!

Jack Haskins, Jr. said:

Steve, I didn't get a chance to cut anything with it. The question now is how long the edge will stay sharp. Will it loose the shaving sharpness but retain what I call a "working edge" or will it just get dull to the point it's unusable. I'll cut down a few trees tomorrow. lol The steel came off the edge easily so I don't think it is real hard. I'm no expert about that though. The stones I used remove steel with no problem from blades with an Rc hardness of 64-66. So because the steel came off fast doesn't mean it's real soft. The edge retention will tell the tale I guess. The handle is comfortable and feels sturdy.

Jack

Steve Hanner said:

Well that sure is sharper than what I could put on it! What are your thoughts on the knife?

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 31, 2013 at 18:02

One other thing crossed my mind and that is would it be a problem to take us through the steps. I mean I look at the knife in the video and it looks and acts completely different. I mean I spent two months as time permitted, taking whacks at that edge. It took you just a short time.

Something you are doing is working and I bet we can get a lot of people help when they read this.

Jack Haskins, Jr. said:

Steve, I didn't get a chance to cut anything with it. The question now is how long the edge will stay sharp. Will it loose the shaving sharpness but retain what I call a "working edge" or will it just get dull to the point it's unusable. I'll cut down a few trees tomorrow. lol The steel came off the edge easily so I don't think it is real hard. I'm no expert about that though. The stones I used remove steel with no problem from blades with an Rc hardness of 64-66. So because the steel came off fast doesn't mean it's real soft. The edge retention will tell the tale I guess. The handle is comfortable and feels sturdy.

Jack

Steve Hanner said:

Well that sure is sharper than what I could put on it! What are your thoughts on the knife?

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 31, 2013 at 20:23

To get the finished edge I used the Edge Pro with Shapton glass stones. The Edge Pro keeps the angle accurate and consistant. The coarser stones I started with were "moldmaster" stones (320 and 400 grit) that I got from congresstools.com. I got the size for use with the EP but they have different sizes. I set the edge angle with them and finished with the Shapton glass stones (2k, 6k, 8k). The angle right at the edge is a 40 degree inclusive angle and behind (above) it the bevel angle is 30 degrees. I used two seperate steps to get the edge sharp. Right at the edge a 40 degree angle is a pretty basic average angle that is sturdy and can easily be kept sharp. The lower 30 degree (15 degrees per side) angle bevels above the edge bevel thins the blade so it slices better through whatevery it is cutting. Above that is the grind of the blade (saber, hollow, FFG, etc.). I used the edge pro but any sharpening method is fine. Free hand on bench stones or another angle controlling system. I try to stay away from any sharptning tool involving a motor. They can heat the edge to the point of damaging the heat treat or just remove too much steel too fast. Especially if the knife has a blade of expensive, hopefully high quality steel. I think there are some good power sharpening systems available that don't bring these problems but I haven't tried them (yet).

As far as why I had more success my first thought is that I was using a different type or cleaner stones so they cut better. If your stones sharpen other knives with no problem that might mean the blade steel on this knife is harder than the blade steel on your other knives. As I was sharpening it I didn't get the feeling the steel was a high quality steel but I didn't get a feeling it was junk either. I actually started working on your knife with a fine grit DMT bench stone. It was removing steel like it is supposed to but to re-profile the edge like was needed it would have taken forever. So I think the stone you were using was not coarse enough. What type and what grit stone(s) did you use? A stone that will sharpen a Case pocket knive perfectly may not be up to removing enough steel to get the edge on this knife edge in shape.

All my live I bought pocket knives for $10 or $20 and used them and always thought they got dull too fast. Five or six years ago I decided to get a pocket knife that would stay sharp much longer. I figured they would be more expensive but I really had no idea. lol Paying $100 and up for a pocketknife. I had never thought of such a thing. Well, slowly I got used to this and when I began getting knives that would stay sharp much longer I also found out my 20 year old medium Arkansas stone could not keep them sharp much less remove enough steel to re-profile or "thin" an edge when it's needed. I had to buy "new and improved" (lol) stones. Now I can sharpen any blade steel I've come across. I have not tried to sharpen a lot of different steel types and I am no expert. But sharpening a knife is like any task. Better tools makes things easier, faster and better. That's why I thought this discussion might help people who want to buy "better" stones but since they normally aren't cheap they will hesitate because of not knowing what to buy and/or why. In case anyone is wondering what amount of money I'm thinking of I'd say a good sharpening stone set can be had for $100. If you want to be thoroughly prepared for any sharpening need it will cost more. Like someone who sharpens for a living. Or some idiot who just takes on sharpening knives as a hobby. lol I've found it is amazing how complicated we can make a simple thing like sharpening a knife to be. LOL

Steve Hanner said:

One other thing crossed my mind and that is would it be a problem to take us through the steps. I mean I look at the knife in the video and it looks and acts completely different. I mean I spent two months as time permitted, taking whacks at that edge. It took you just a short time.

Something you are doing is working and I bet we can get a lot of people help when they read this.

Jack Haskins, Jr. said:

Steve, I didn't get a chance to cut anything with it. The question now is how long the edge will stay sharp. Will it loose the shaving sharpness but retain what I call a "working edge" or will it just get dull to the point it's unusable. I'll cut down a few trees tomorrow. lol The steel came off the edge easily so I don't think it is real hard. I'm no expert about that though. The stones I used remove steel with no problem from blades with an Rc hardness of 64-66. So because the steel came off fast doesn't mean it's real soft. The edge retention will tell the tale I guess. The handle is comfortable and feels sturdy.

Jack

Steve Hanner said:

Well that sure is sharper than what I could put on it! What are your thoughts on the knife?

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on September 1, 2013 at 13:27

Steve, how about I send the knife back to you sharp and see if you can dull it a bit and then get it sharp again. I'm betting that won't be a problem. It's just that the edge needed more work than the stone you used was capable of accomplishing. I was looking through another discussion this morning and saw that your primary stone is an Arkansas stone. That's if I remember correctly. Don't remember if you mentioned grit. Anyway, now that the edge is sharp it should be easy to maintain. If used frequently and touched up several times, any edge will need to be re-profiled or thinned from time to time. Then another stone may be needed. Maybe not if this is done frequently as well.

Jack