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440 or 1095?

Help,

I see these two listed on allot of knife blade write ups. I see a variety of different materials listed in knife write ups and not sure what is better or what to stay away from.

any help? The 1095 I see on many GEC knives.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 3, 2011 at 18:16

Halicon and Dale,

We all agree that it is interesting and I for one like to see the battle of the wits when both sides know what they are talking about. This willingness to share information is exactly why we come here and keep coming back. So you keep sharing and we'll keep learning. Best deal I have made in an long time!!

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Permalink Reply by Donald Rourke on May 3, 2011 at 18:25

To me learning is what it's all about. And yea I placed this in general knife discussions. What prompted all this was in my research I found a number of different listings for knife blade material and I made a list. I cannot find my list but I wrote down at least five different types that were mentioned in write up on different blade material for different knives. I think my point was that with all these differnt types and lists I for one have no clue what they mean in terms of quality, and I don't think the average person does either. So I am here learning too. So I ask.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 3, 2011 at 18:50

And thank you Donald for starting such a lively and interesting discussion. I learned alot. Dale what the heck did all that mean on your brothers new wonderful knife?

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Permalink Reply by Donald Rourke on May 3, 2011 at 19:05

lol...I try

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on May 3, 2011 at 21:31

X90CrMoC18 ... is just another name for ... 440B

.. that's why I included the steel cross reference link .. it works both ways .. the steel info can be sourced under 440B .. or .. x90CrMoC18. Referenced either way .. it lists all the other names 440B goes under ... and there's a few. Now that 440B is finally getting a poor rep amongst serious knife users .. manufacturers can/must now .. very legitmately .. label it ...... X90CrMoC18 ....... w/o mis-leading anyone .. right !?!

NOT .. when my lil chemist bro knew only that it had some Cr (chromium), Mo (molybdenum), & some C (carbon) in it .. he also thought it was good steel ?!?

Jan Carter said:

And thank you Donald for starting such a lively and interesting discussion. I learned alot. Dale what the heck did all that mean on your brothers new wonderful knife?

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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on May 4, 2011 at 9:32

Another addition to the "Library".

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Permalink Reply by Adlai Stein on May 5, 2011 at 22:13

One of the interesting things that D ales formula brings up is all the other stuff in the stainless alloy. Where the 10xx series of steels is basically iron and carbon and manganese . It's as plain a steel as you can get without making it yourself. It's very versatile and takes a beautiful hamon where it's impossible to get on in a stainless. I'm a big fan of simple steels and as a smith have no use for the stainless. In 10xx steels the first part denotes it’s 10 series and the second part is the points of carbon. So 1095 has more quite a bit more carbon that 1080. What this means is that 1095 will be harder and more brittle than the 1080. The 1080 will be more tougher (more flexible) and a bit softer. Tempering will allow you to play with that a bit too. The problem with stainless in my opinion is that in longer blades it gets too brittle and I have never found it to hold an edge nearly as long.

The real question in choosing a steel is what are you going to do with it. I wouldn’t use the same type of steel or tempering method in a razor as I would a hunter or even a sword. You want a razor to be very hard you aren’t cutting much with it but hair. It can be brittle because you want it to stay sharp and you aren’t putting a lot of stress on it. For a hunter you want it to hold an edge for a long time but you also want a bit of flex so it doesn’t break cutting through bone. What I’m trying to say is that pick your steel for the job you want it to do.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 6, 2011 at 18:18

Great comments and very true Adlai. Thank you for making it simple to process in my little brain!!

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on May 9, 2011 at 7:55

My personal take on 440 and 1095.

The vast majority of pocket knives made today are made with 440A or an equivalent grade of steel. (420HC, 425M, X50CrMO, Case's Tru-Sharp, etc) There is better steel out there but 440A is a good all around steel for your everyday pocket knife) It isn't the best steel but it a common steel used for blades in pocket. If you're happy with the performance of a Buck, Victorinox Swiss Army Knife, a Case knife, or the stainless pocket knives used by the U.S. Military, then 440A will be just fine for you. They all use a similar quality steel.

1095 is a common carbon steel that has been around for over a century. Before the U.S military switched over to 440 and 420HC for its pocket knives, it was used 1095. It still uses 1095 for its fixed blades. Again it is a good all around steel. Case's CV knives are 1095 with chrome vanadium added. Many of the knives made by Ontario use 1095.

The quality of steel continues to improve as metallurgists experiment with new ways to treat it. Stainless steel from the 1920s was horrible stuff and was generally shunned by knife makers. As it improved more and more knife makers adopted it for pocket knives. Today Stainless seems to be the steel favored for pocket knives, and 440, despite what someone said seems to be a very common knife steel.

The more important question isn't what type of steel is used, but what is the reputation of the company and how does their knife rate? Are there knives made today the same, better or worse than they used to be? It is more important to say what you plan to do with the knife and then ask will this type of blade be acceptable. For instance I wouldn't trust a machete made of 440A steel but have no problem with pocket knife made of 440A that is going to do some basic whittling, peal the occasional apple and cut the occasional rope.

Toby

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Permalink Reply by stephen tungate on May 9, 2011 at 11:28

nice and short and to the point.thank you tobias.....

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 9, 2011 at 17:16

There more this goes on the more I learn, Thank you all for being so willing to share

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Permalink Reply by Billy Oneale on May 10, 2011 at 12:28

Wow ! I don't know if I can retain all that. Certainly a lively discussion and lots of information on steels. I learned a lot by reading all the comments.