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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 23, 2013 at 14:29

Got another Klein Tool TL-29 and have another coming in the mail from ebay. This one is stamped MKLEIN&SONS, Chicago, USA

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 26, 2013 at 19:34

TL in typical U.S. military fashion stands for Linesman, Tool.  The 29 refers to the knife.  They were part of set of tools that included a knife and wire-cutters/pliers.  The pliers were designated TL-13A,  The knife and pliers were carried together in the Leather CS-34 Linesman pouch.  These were issued to signal corps linesman (people who laid land lines [wire] for field telephones.)  The linesman kit entered service in 1915. 

While plenty of companies supplied TL-29s to the military it would not make sense that Klein Tools did.  Electrician knives sold by Klein were primarily made under contract by Camillus or Ulster, depending on the year of manufacture.

I have never seen or read about a military issue half hawk electrician knife.   The R-3 on the knife is an internal number used by Klein to differentiate between their various electrician knives. (the standard; a half hawk; and a three blade that had the spear, screwdriver and half hawk blades.)

Many people believe that if the knife is stamped TL-29, it was military issue and any knife not stamped TL-29 is a civilian model.  This is not the case.

After World War II Camillus had thousands of  left-over handles  stamped TL-29   and they used them up to fill civilian contracts.   Later they and other companies filled government contracts with knives destined to civilian market.  So unless you were the one carrying it or was given and electrician knive by a person who carried it in the there really is no way to know which ones are issued and which were made for the civilian market.  

Even 4 line  Camillus TL-29 knives were made  for the civilian market;well into the 1950s as Camillus exhausted in blade stock from the war!

Hope this helps

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 27, 2013 at 4:08

Thanks Tobias, Great info, I have 3 Klein tools now and really like them, even though they weren't made for military. Your research really clears a lot up for me. I still wonder if there is such a thing as a TL-27???

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 27, 2013 at 5:38

Ken, the only mention I've seen of a TL-27 is on a U.S. Army Exam:

INSTALLATION, MAINTENANCE, RECOVERY, AND SERVICE OF  TELEPHONE CABLE WD-1( )/TT OR WF-16/U

What is the nomenclature of the knife in the TE -33 kit?

A. TL-13

B. TL-19

C. TL-27

D. TL-29

your confusion might come from Camillus listing their civilian model of the Tl-29 as their #27 electrician knife.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 27, 2013 at 13:00

Good, I can forget about a TL-27 once and for all, I don't even remember who mentioned it. I do like the TL-29's.

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Permalink Reply by Ricky L McConnell on September 29, 2013 at 19:00

Chuck,

          I have new Klein Knife that  I recently purchased thru work . It has the stamping LL, and then below that, Klein Tools, Chicago USA. Based on the letter from Klein, I wonder who the manufacturer is in Chicago that made my knife on contract ? Ken, any ideas ? The knife is a two blade , with a curved sheepfoot and a special Insulation slitting blade.

                       Ricky

Chuck Parham said:

I'll be hanged if I can tell you!!! I've been trying to research it for the 3 weeks I've had the knife.  LOL I've found tons of stuff on the T and TL 29's. If I remember my research it was a military designation to begin with. I want to say Gen. Curtis LeMay from the USAF promoted it, if I remember right. There's lots of info available on them but I can't find any for mine.  LOL I don't think the info ever did mention what the letters "T" or "TL" stood for, Ken. Sorry but this is all I can recall at this time. I have attached a letter for you from Klein tools.

Dear Sir,
Thank you for contacting Klein Tools with your question about how Klein Tools letter date code tang stamp on our knives is read. Klein Tools began using a letter code on the tang stamp of knives that we made for dating purposes beginning in 1972 and we started that year with the letter "I". Then the next letter in the alphabet "J" was used for the next year 1973 and so on. Klein has make mistakes in our letter code date tang stampings in 1979 by omitting the letter "Q" and we skipped on to the letter "R", then another mistake was made in 1997 by using both letters "I" and "J" for that year. Once we hit the letter "Z" in 1988, we started over with the letter "A", not with double letter date codes tang stamps. Therefor a Klein knife with a tang stamp letter "A" date code =1989. We are currently at the letter "Y" =2012. When we hit the letter "Z" again next year, it is yet to be seen what type of tang stamp code Klein Tools will use on knives made after the letter "Z". Prior to 1972, Klein Tools used a 3-letter code tang stamp on our knives, though not every knife was stamped and would not have those 3-letters stamped on the knife anywhere. Klein Tools has never used a 2 -letter code date stamp. If you have a Klein marked knife that has a 2 -letter code tang stamped on it, the knife was most likely stamped that way by a cutlery manufacturer that we contracted to make the knife for us and we have no information on how that letter code date tang stamp would work, or who the exact contracted knife manufacturer was that made the knife. I hope this helps answer your question and thank you for your interest in Klein Tools. If I can be of further service to you please feel free to contact Klein Tools.
Regards,
Bill
Klein Tools

 
Ken Spielvogel said:

Chuck, What is a "27"? Wonder what the T stands for and the TL?

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 29, 2013 at 19:10

Rickey, sounds like a really nice knife you have. I am not sure about the manufacturer or what LL means. TL means "Tool-Linesman" in military lingo. I love that Hawk and esp. the half hawk on a knife.Chuck did a great job in corresponding with Klein Tools about the knives. Great info.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 29, 2013 at 19:42

Ricky, could you post  apicture of the new knife?  That might help us solve the riddle of the LL.  My first thought is "liner lock" but without a pic it is hard to say.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 30, 2013 at 11:22

Might have done some misspeaking earlier.   Klein made tools for the military back in WWII and as they make telephone and electrical tools.  I Can't confirm who they were contracting electrician knives through at that time.  A WWII Klein TL-29 would have a tang stamp that reads M. KLEIN & SONS / CHICAGO / MADE IN USA. 

And as I mentioned earlier, the Department of Defense bought these knives from who ever the low bidder is/was, so if Klein was able to cut a good deal on pliers and knife at the same time, who know what happened?

Also

Despite the information in the email from Klein, most of the single blade knives  (small EZ outs and Hawkbills) have double letters stamped above the KLEIN TOOLS /CHICAGO USA

In 2007, Klein bought Heritage Cutlery and I believe they began making their Electrician type knives via that plant around that time.  Other knives are made in Japan and/or Taiwan.

Finally, I think 1972 is when Klein switched from the M. Klein & Sons  tang stamp to the Klein Tools tang stamp which might explain part of the "letter dating" system and why the guy who sent the email said they started with "I" (as the letter between H and J) in 1972.    Still working on confirming this.  

Incidentally, the same person who sent the email about the  starting with the letter "I" in 1972 sent an email about Klein skipping the letter "O" which is quite odd, as i have a Klein knife stamped "O"!

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Permalink Reply by Ricky L McConnell on September 30, 2013 at 18:06

Here are some pics of the LL knife and I also bought another one that has a KK on the tang. They both have liner locks in the handle.

 

                    Ricky

Tobias Gibson said:

Ricky, could you post  apicture of the new knife?  That might help us solve the riddle of the LL.  My first thought is "liner lock" but without a pic it is hard to say.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 30, 2013 at 18:42

I saw the "Klein Tools" letter on Blades Forum as well.  I also saw an earlier comment from "Bill of Klein Tools" that contradicted part of that letter.  I'm beginning to wonder if Bill is just "winging it!"

If you go to the Current Klein Tools Web site, you can even see images of Klein Tools Knives with a double letters!

For instance their Slitting Knife (Hawkbill).  See picture below

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 30, 2013 at 18:51

So, these look like new or mint knives. Are these still being made or have you just found some mint knives?? Love that Hawkbill.

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