Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ricky L McConnell on September 30, 2013 at 19:07

They are new Ken, I ordered them straight from Klein's catalog.

Ken Spielvogel said:

So, these look like new or mint knives. Are these still being made or have you just found some mint knives?? Love that Hawkbill.

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Permalink Reply by Ricky L McConnell on September 30, 2013 at 19:08

Hi Tobias,

        So now we have a challenge of finding out who makes the knives in Chicago .......
Tobias Gibson said:

I saw the "Klein Tools" letter on Blades Forum as well.  I also saw an earlier comment from "Bill of Klein Tools" that contradicted part of that letter.  I'm beginning to wonder if Bill is just "winging it!"

If you go to the Current Klein Tools Web site, you can even see images of Klein Tools Knives with a double letters!

For instance their Slitting Knife (Hawkbill).  See picture below

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 30, 2013 at 19:11

Thanks Ricky, I am going online to see if I can find them.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 30, 2013 at 19:20

Ricky, found them - $22.40 - good buy. They call that blade a sheepfoot - I thought it looked more like a half hawk.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 30, 2013 at 20:57

In 2007 Klein bought Heritage cutlery in Bolivar NY.   It is possible they moved the knife productuon there, however, there is no sign that that is the case.  Heritage primarily makes scissors.   Did the packaging on the knives say made in USA?   I kniw the tang stamp says  Chicago, USA.

My next thought is if Klein opted to go double letters the next go around through the alphabet then  a knife stamped KK  would be from 1999 and the KK knife from 1998.  This would be back when Camillus was making the knives.  

If the knives are still being made in the USA and are current production then the most likely culprits are Colonial or Utica (Kutmaster).  

The problem with  Colonial is it just recently moved production of  some of its electrician knives back patterns back the U.S.  and went through reorganization.  I'm also not aware of them producing Elec knives with carbon steel blades.

Thus I'm leaning towards Utica (Kutmaster) picking up production of the knives for Klein after the demise of  Camillus.  They produce every pattern in the Klein Tool line and they look identical with the exception of the tang stamp.

And yep, Ken, they do call it a sheepfot but I agree with you, it is a half-hawk.   They also call the hawkbill and slitting blade where it is normally called a pruner or hawkbill.   Blades are often called different thing by different makers   Most collectors and industry folks would call that klein "sheepfoot" a half-hawk.    Utica calls it a "stripping/pruning" blade,

Of course the other option is the knives are being made by Klein in one of their seven USA  factories!

They make tools for numerous hardware including: 

Ace Hardware (Ace Tools) · AutoZone (Duralast) · Blain's Farm and Fleet (Duracraft) · Canadian Tire (Mastercraft) · The Home Depot (Husky, Workforce) · Lee Valley (Veritas) · Lowe's (Kobalt) · Menards (Masterforce) · Sears (Craftsman)

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Permalink Reply by peter force on October 1, 2013 at 8:33

HEY HEY HEY!!! their is so much going on with KLEIN we have 2-3 diferent places with the same answers....LOL!...

@KEN you should gather up the posts! lots of awesome info!!! make notes for yourself or copy and paste it all to your PC!!...{just an idea} .. make a KLEIN TOOLS FOLDER!

@Tobias ..im a question junkie as well and on another post-i dont know maybe a week ago-i also posted that the TL was ..tool,linesman. i collected them as part of my ODDBALL COLLECTION..i love odd knives that i will have almost no purpose to use{hence my timber scribe collection}..i dont think i will be scribing the haul of any boats any time soon!...LOL! -yet i own them and love them... anyway i got the TOOL,LINESMAN right from a CAMILLUS WAR KNIFE CONTRACT. even had the amount ordered and so forth...

one of the reasons i brought the TL up again and the war contract ...was.. TO ASK..-

@tobias ..dont quote me exactly  i think you said something about extra parts and not all stamped tl-29 knives making it to the military and extra parts...again no where near exact quote..LOL..

 i understand extra knife parts and blades and ect happen all the time.. but do you think even with an exact number ordered a company would make extras?.. i was just wondering?? i know our goverment can be wasteful..{shhh} but i know most companies do not like to be. so i could see of course camillus using extra pieces and so forth... but wouldnt the goverment expect exactly the amount they ordered and paid for?.. and if so why would CAMILLUS stamp extra handles??... again im pleading ignorance here as i have yet to study military knives much at all or how orders were handled,if extra knives maybe were made..things like that... ..so i dont know if  companys did make extras or a surplus  just in case??.. any info would be awesome!!...

with all the answering and such everywhere i went ahead to see here on IKC how many times KLEIN has been discussed and like most knife clubs we are REPEATING{which is great ..with new collectors comes new information}but the inforamtion already here is also just as good!

. i wanted you to know @KEN that if you SEARCH  KLEIN in the IKC search box you would be surprised..lots of awesome pics to! ...plus lots of information that you may well already be looking for!!

i found a link to 3 of my favorite KLEINS pictured here on IKC-.. http://www.iknifecollector.com/photo/klein-tool-knives?context=user BEAUTIES...i want all of them and i love the winterbottom bone.. i know QUEEN bought 80-85%-but i know these are not QUEEN patterns. THE CELL TORTOISE is AWESOME too! ...the hatchet knife is just TOOOOOOOOOOO SWEEEETTTT!

MY AWESOME KLEIN FIND!!- about a year ago at a FLEA MARKET i grabbed a 5 LINE KLEIN. !!!

KLEIN TOOLS/CHICAGO USA/1550-24/MADE IN SHEFFIELD/ENGLAND .. IT WAS A 50CENT FLEA MARKET SCORE!! and MINT!..its a very ODD shaped and BLUE colored knife and has a cool single BIRDS EYE BRASS PIN!.. liner lock.

its made in SHEFFY,ENGLAND and still a KLEIN?.. the handle and body of the knife speak COLONIAL/IMPERIAL to me but i didnt do the homework yet. the knife is still in their most current catalog to. as a matter of fact i have CATALOG NUMBER 156 ITS HUGE.. 350+COLOR PAGES!! i actually got it directly from KLEIN ..along with a huge box around XMAS!!...FOLKS HERE ON IKC might remember me jumping up and down about it when it came..i was shocked..... the best part though was seeing the blue knife that i had found earlier in the year--still RECENT and in the catalog! so their is one for you... WHO IS MAKING THE ENGLAND MODELS???        -and i love 5 lines!..dont ask me why!

 i dont have a pic handy but i went ahead and searched for it by the model number 1550-24{in case it has not been posted alread-and even if it has- KLEIN}ANYHOO- it brought it right up http://www.amazon.com/Klein-1550-24-2-Inch-Slitting-Stainless/dp/B0...  opinions on maker? ... colonial,imperial are the only ones i have seen use this kind of body.{its hollow}

with all the differrent tl's and hawks from kutamster/camillus/klein/ectectect i have  been able to just lay them right next to each other and you can see who makes which.

-with the name thing.. hawks,half-hawks..ectect.. i have heard everything..even- "give me that floor ripping knife".LOL...

...i also have a WESTERN HAWKBILL 854 made by CAMILLUS that instead of the letter stamp on the back it says UTILITY and have seen what we call hawkbill knives stamped deeply in 1920 SCHATT HAWKS "PRUNER " real deep on the blade...  hawkbill knives have also been called "linoleum" knives... i worked at lowes for 5 years and hawkbills their were labeled linoleum knives.

ok enough for now... but @KEN if you really like KLEIN TOOLS that much write them like i did and see what shows up??!!! ..i wrote them and just asked for a catalog and if they had anythig that would be neat for photos or a display as i have about 30 klein knives and wanted to set up a display for a bit.{displays are fun!} 

LINK TO PDF CATALOG .... number 156 .. skip to  page 298 starts the knives!... the BLUE knife ..the only BLUE knife is shown on page 298. their are more knives scattered throughout the catalog ..listed under what job they are used for. LIKE -HVAC KNIVES.

http://www.kleintools.com/sites/kleintools/files/tool-catalog/Klein...   

http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-DK06-Serrated-Knife/dp/B003OA69W6 - thats a knife listed under HVAC ...  double edged! -but example of one of the many knives not listed under CUTTING TOOLS and KNIVES.  ... knife lws being crazy .. i know certain states you cannot carry a double edge fixed bblade...some you can...some you can under certain lenghts ectect.

so far GOOGLE hs been great with KLEIN model/catalog numbers all i did was enter into GOOGLE the catalog number DK06 and Kleins serrated duct knife came right up!  ... today for fun im gonna pop in some of the old model number i have on some of my older kleins and see what happens.

the wood handled folders remind me of the GERBER SILVER KNIGHT knives.

 

ALSO THIS CRACKED ME UP AND I THOUGHT IT WAS SPELLED WRONG but its not.. http://www.amazon.com/DA71000-KLENK-TOOLS-Insulation-Knife/dp/B004J... KLENK TOOLS... frst time i have seen them.

HOPE THE RAMBLINGS HELP!  ... i know it was alot but wanted to gather it all up in one post!...

 

anyone that really loves KLEIN TOOLS... WRITE OR CALL THEM.. they will take care of you! {catalogs,ect,ect} with the catalog and other things they sent me some WISH LIST KLEIN TOOL notebooks!..i still have a bunch and they are cool to toss in with trades!

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on October 1, 2013 at 8:34

My 3 Klein tool stampings are:

R3

KLEIN Tools

Chicago USA

and

MKLEIN&SONS

Chicago USA

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on October 1, 2013 at 8:36

and my new addition:

U

KLEIN Tools

Chicago USA

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on October 1, 2013 at 8:46

Between Peter and Tobias we are getting a first class Klein education, I love it. Thanks to both of you for your research and info.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 1, 2013 at 10:26

Peter, the thing with Wars is most don't know when they are going to end. After Nazi Germany  Surrender in on May 7, 1945,  The Allied forces began preparing for the invasion of Japan.  From April to June, 1945, the Battloe of Okinawa raged on.   Many force in Europe were looking at dedeployment to the Pacific theater.  It was beleived that it would takes at least another 18-24 months to invade and conquer the Japanese Mainland.  The optomist felt the war might end by Christmas 1946 (another 18 months) but some anticipated the war going to the fall of 1947!

On August 6, 1945, the US dropped a bomb on Hiroshima and then on Aigust 8, a second bomb dropped on Nagasaki. The Empire of Japan Surrender to Allied force on September 2, 1945 and suddenly peace broke out!  

Hundereds of companies, including Camillus  went from war time production to peace time production as literally hundred of thousands of government contracts were cancelled.  Knives that were ready for delivery were left in stockpiles as the gov't refused to receive them. This also left a back-log of parts sitting in bins that were to be used for now cancelled government contracts. As Camillus was a business and is, they did what busiensses do.  They sold the stuff in other markets.

The government on the other hand, saw the stockpiles of  supplies that they had already taken hold of, determined how much they might need in the future and destroyed the rest as waste!

As Camillus went back to peace time production they started ad campaigns  with such phrases as  "It was your best friend in the fox hole and now if can be your hunting buddy!" and the like.  The back-log of blades and other knife parts continued to be used for years after the war, being sold on the civilian market. Thus, you were just as likely to get a 4 line Camillus as a three line Camillus in the post WWII years well into the 1950s.

Later, when the US. government went to fill contracts for TL-29s and other knives, Camillus and others used existing stock that met the government specifications so many civilian electrician knives were sold to the Government as a TL-29.   So a Camillus Pattern #27 Electrician knife is the same as the Government TL-29.

 The information I have came from a variety of sources including an interview of the Camillus Factory Historian.

peter force said:

@tobias ..dont quote me exactly  i think you said something about extra parts and not all stamped tl-29 knives making it to the military and extra parts...again no where near exact quote..LOL..

 i understand extra knife parts and blades and ect happen all the time.. but do you think even with an exact number ordered a company would make extras?.. i was just wondering?? i know our goverment can be wasteful..{shhh} but i know most companies do not like to be. so i could see of course camillus using extra pieces and so forth... but wouldnt the goverment expect exactly the amount they ordered and paid for?.. and if so why would CAMILLUS stamp extra handles??... again im pleading ignorance here as i have yet to study military knives much at all or how orders were handled,if extra knives maybe were made..things like that... ..so i dont know if  companys did make extras or a surplus  just in case??.. any info would be awesome!!...

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 1, 2013 at 11:05

Ken the M Klein & Sons is the older tang stamp dating from before 1972.    I'm not sure how long the stamping was used, however.  Klein has been around since the 1800s.  They started making telephone and electrical tools in 1890 and put out its first catalog in 1901.

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Permalink Reply by Dean Ellis on October 8, 2013 at 16:52

I used a Klein knifelike this 40 years ago working as a lineman for CNR. It was purchased through their 'stores' as an electricians knife with a choice of blade style (hawk or straight). fantastic knife. the screwdriver blade locked but the knife blade did not.

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