Welcome Home...THANK YOU FOR BEING A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY

iKnife Collector

The online community of knife collectors, A Knife Family Forged in Steel

Why no so called "super steels" blades on traditional pocket knives?

I don't mean this to be negative in any way toward or about any knife company. I'm sure the subject has been discussed by everyone involved in the design part of knife companies.

I'll mention two steels I consider to be VERY good and also VERY different from each other. ZDP-189 (Japanese steel) and CPM-M4. Ok I'll also mention CPM-S30V and CTS-XHP. GREAT edge retention but don't drive the cost up tremendously I don't thing. I'm focusing on ZDP and M4 here because of the sharpening difference. Both of these steels hold an edge far longer than Case's stainless and CV blades. This is based on my very limited testing ability. I test edge holding by seeing how much cardboard I can cut to loose the razor edge and also how much more cardboard does it take to get the knife dull. Although normally I don't have enough cardboard to get several knives really dull. Why aren't these steels used? The edge will stay sharp much longer. One reason I'm sure is cost. I don't know how much cost increase there would be with two identical knives except the blade steel. The only other thing I've heard is about the ease of sharpening the harder steels. ZDP-189 can be heat treated to obtain an Rc or 64-66. HARD. Also takes quite a while to get a dull knife sharp. With this steel it's just a good idea to keep it very sharp with frequent touch ups. Keep in mind ZDP will need a slight touch up when Case's CV will be DULL. One of my absolute favorite steels is CPM-M4. This holds a edge extremely well also but is much easier to sharpen. In fact it takes such a superb sharp edge and holds it that it's hard for me to understand why it sharpens so easy. This is because I'm no steel expert. As I understand it though the Rc # is only one part of what makes a steel hold an edge or makes it harder to sharpen. In my town we have an OLD hardware store on Main St. that has a display of Case knives that is pretty large. I was looking at it and was talking to an employee and one selling point he made was that the knives could easily be sharpened. I understand how this is a big deal for most people. I stumbled into sharpening as a hobby along with the knives I carry so I invested money in tools and time practicing that most folks don't want to do. Having the proper stones to sharpen the harder steels is essential and they are not cheap. So, if the knife costs more because of a different steel then you need to buy different stones (diamond for example) that's a whole lot of money for the guy who just wants one or two knives for EDC.

So anyway, does anyone know why the knife companies don't develope a model or series where the thing that makes a series different is the blade steel. We have knives with inexpensive handle materials and the same knives with more expensive handle material and a price sometimes 4 times as high. So if my goal is to have a knife with significantly better edge retention and I don't care what handle material I have I'd buy the knife with CPM-M4 and a good but inexpensive handle material. One example is the #6 Opinel knife I have with carbon steel. The steel performs very well and the knife cost $13. I'd gladly buy a stockman with Opinel's carbon steel and a cheaper handle.

Just wondering about this. Again, I'm not saying any knife is junk or any reputable company makes junk knives. It's just that edge retention is the only reason I decided to buy more expensive knives. After I started I learned more about other features. Different locks, handle material, etc.

Jack

1 member likes this

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on August 16, 2013 at 2:04

One reason they don't do this is because of their market.

Despite what a lot of knife collectors/steel snobs/knifenuts think....their market is a LOT bigger than just those knife nuts.

Buck did some experiments with this back in the 80's/90's. They switched from their regular 420HC steel to 440C stainless.

They got almost nothing but complaints. You see, their user base couldn't sharpen (or didn't know how to) these higher alloy steels.

You see the same thing with Queen knives. Most of which come in D2 steel. The most often heard complaint about those knives? The dull edge out of the box and how they're almost impossible to reprofile.

They have to go where the money is. And in "traditional" knives....the mass of the money is with lower alloy, softer steels.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 16, 2013 at 8:45

Thanks Alexander. That does make sense. About Queen using D2, I'm hoping to get my first Queen knife in the mail today. Actually I did have it earlier but the lock didn't operate properly and they are replacing it. I didn't get a chance to use the knife so I am looking forward to using the D2. I'm looking forward to getting more of the traditional type knives. I've always thought they have a beauty to them a lot of other knives don't have. The blade steel in the Case knives I've used recently may not have been M4 but it was definately functional. I did have a Gerber once and I believe it had 440A. The edge retention on that was especially bad. It was a model that Nicolas Cage used in a movie though. I guess the knife gets points for that. lol

Alexander Noot said:

One reason they don't do this is because of their market.

Despite what a lot of knife collectors/steel snobs/knifenuts think....their market is a LOT bigger than just those knife nuts.

Buck did some experiments with this back in the 80's/90's. They switched from their regular 420HC steel to 440C stainless.

They got almost nothing but complaints. You see, their user base couldn't sharpen (or didn't know how to) these higher alloy steels.

You see the same thing with Queen knives. Most of which come in D2 steel. The most often heard complaint about those knives? The dull edge out of the box and how they're almost impossible to reprofile.

They have to go where the money is. And in "traditional" knives....the mass of the money is with lower alloy, softer steels.

▶ Reply

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on August 16, 2013 at 10:40

Case knives use to be made of 420HC but to cut cost they changed to SS steel. No that doesn't mean "Stainless Steel" but it's the name Case has given their new steel. I try hard not to say anything negative about a knife company, unless I have to. Their new SS steel of Case, I personally don't like it and quite a few others don't either. I sharpen a lot of knives for people but I have decided not to waste my time on a steel blade.

Years ago Buck had a steel they were using that was really hard to put an edge on. I have the steels # somewhere in my files. The bad reputation of this steel has many still not buying Buck knives to this day. They finally changed to 420HC and their troubles were over.

The right steel or wrong steel and the companies buying public can make or brake a knife company. I agree with Alex, a knife company may have to stay in the middle of the road when it comes to knifes steel.

One this they can do, and I have seen some companies try, is a special edition knife, with special steel blades.