Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ron Cooper on August 21, 2013 at 15:04

Jack,

Thanks for these recommendations as well as for doing the extensive, expensive, research that has led to these conclusions. I have been reading all of your contributions regarding sharpening and feel that I have learned a great deal from what you have written. If nothing else you have certainly provided ample food for thought and consideration.

One thing's for sure -- No one will ever be able to accuse you of not being a prolific poster! lol

So, THANKS!, my friend. You are truly a valued asset and a treasure to our community!

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 21, 2013 at 20:09

Great report Jack so two stones now course and fine...extra fine for later. OK so How much$?  Maybe a range and is this one brand of stones you recommend or are there many? Final question.... who do you think has the best stone price?

Permalink Reply by Stephen L. Corley on August 21, 2013 at 20:44

I have used diamond stones in the past and had good results with them. The stones I currently have are a carbon silicon, a ceramic rod and Smith Arkansas tri hone. The carbon followed by ceramic I used for a long time. The Arkansas stones I used for a short time. I seldom use either now. I have gotten into convex edges and use wet dry sand paper followed by heavy stropping. I made my own strop and use buffing compound from Lowes. Before I consider myself finished, I give the blade a once over with a 20x magnifying glass. I look for any and all imperfections that could have an effect on the performance. 

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 21, 2013 at 21:41

Steve,

Cutleryshoppe.com has the best continuous prices I've seen.  The only way you may get a better price is on ebay but it would probably be lucky timing or something.

DMT

2"x6"  Abrasive on both sides.  Coarse and fine on opposite side of the same stone.   $45

They also have stones with extra-coarse and coarse on one stone and another one with fine and extra-fine.  $45 each.  So, if you are ok with 6" stones and would like all 4 grits this is a good option.

Single sided 2x6 stones are about $26 each.

3"x8" $45 each.

2.5"x11..5"   $53 each. 

There are other options so look at them.  There's a 3 stone set in a wooden box with C, F, EF.

DMT is the only diamond stone company products I've used.  I have several other tools also.  4" stones and small stones for circular saw blades, etc.  Great quality that lasts.  Now if you just have to spend a lot of money you should look at Atoma diamond stones on chefknivestogo.com.  They are about double the price and don't have the different size options.  However, people who have used them swear they are better than DMT.  I'd love to try some Atoma stones but my budget disagrees.  If you want you can look at magnified pictures of both stones.  DMT diamonds are just all over the place on the stone.  The diamonds on Atoma stones are lined up in diagonal rows.  These pictures are highly magnified and it's amazing how they get the diamonds to line up like that.  Supposedly this produces a more consistant scratch pattern.  I believe they are for the truely dedicated (obsessed) sharpeners.  They must be something though.  People buy them  and say they are happy they did.  Maybe they have more money than me (or used to lol).  Now all they have is stones. lol

If you use DMT stones properly I doubt if you will evern need to replace them.    Now if you sharpen professionally all day I take that back. :)  There are two things to know about diamond stones.  1. You need to break them in.  Brand new they will be much coarser than they will be after some use.  Then they perform consistantly.  You can feel when they are broken in.  I  use a water stone and lap the water stone with the new DMt stone.  This breaks in the DMT stone in just a few minutes.  If you don't have a water stone you can buy a 1"x6" stone on congresstools.com for about $4.  They work just fine.  2.  VERY IMPORTANT.  Use light pressure when sharpening.  Pressing hard on the stones will ruin them.  You need to get used to this.  It may FEEL like nothing is happening so you want to press harder.  Don't.  Just trust that the diamonds are cutting.  Just look at the edge to see how much metal is being removed.

Steve Hanner said:

Great report Jack so two stones now course and fine...extra fine for later. OK so How much$?  Maybe a range and is this one brand of stones you recommend or are there many? Final question.... who do you think has the best stone price?

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 21, 2013 at 21:57

Perfect Jack and thanks for that. I have one old Arkansas stone and several purchased sharpening tools like sticks and things. The stone is fine. I can sharpen most things. But folks are bringing me more things and need to sharpen with a courser stone to get these things close to an edge. Mostly clippers for hooves and they get a workout! i will look and see what they have and report back!

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on August 21, 2013 at 21:59

Stephen is that all you use to get shaving sharp on your knives?

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 21, 2013 at 22:16

You might want to look at DMTSHARP.COM for a selection of all their products.  They have all sorts of sharpening tools for all sorts of different shaped things.  They do have about any woodworking tool covered as far as something to sharpen them with.  I did remember I have a diamond needle file set I like that is the EZ-LAP company.  I like them ok but don't know about their other tools.

Steve Hanner said:

Perfect Jack and thanks for that. I have one old Arkansas stone and several purchased sharpening tools like sticks and things. The stone is fine. I can sharpen most things. But folks are bringing me more things and need to sharpen with a courser stone to get these things close to an edge. Mostly clippers for hooves and they get a workout! i will look and see what they have and report back!

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 21, 2013 at 22:36

If you get DMT stones you can use the Arkansas stone to break them in.  Your stone may need some flattening anyway.  This way you can flatten your stone and break in the new DMT stones at the same time.  Then your Arkansas stone will be like brand new again.  Two birds and one rock thing. lol   Just don't use a lot of pressure.  Consistant medium pressure is perfect.

Steve Hanner said:

Perfect Jack and thanks for that. I have one old Arkansas stone and several purchased sharpening tools like sticks and things. The stone is fine. I can sharpen most things. But folks are bringing me more things and need to sharpen with a courser stone to get these things close to an edge. Mostly clippers for hooves and they get a workout! i will look and see what they have and report back!dddd

Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on August 22, 2013 at 3:09

Why not just get the DMT aligner set? They have the course, medium and fine stones all in one set and include the Aligner.

All for around $50

Add another $15 and you can get the extra fine as well.

Permalink Reply by Stephen L. Corley on August 22, 2013 at 7:06

Steve when I'm at home, I start with 220 grit, then 600, followed by 1500, wet dry sandpaper. I lay them on a mouse pad or piece of packing foam that I sometimes salvage from work. If I need to sharpen at work, I use 220 grit alum/oxide then 40 micron sanding film followed by 15 micron sanding film. In both cases I use a stropping motion to sharpen. 

To answer your question, will it get them shaving sharp. Yes. It will produce a good shaving edge, even without finishing on a strop. 

As I said I do finish with heavy stropping. I bought a stick of 2x2 and cut it 16" long and rounded off one end for a handle. On each side I use contact cement at attach leather strips that I got from a hobby shop. I went to Lowes and got buffing compounds in 1, 3, 4, and 5. 1 is an emery compound. 5 is a jewelers rouge(sic). 

The difference in an unstropped edge and a stropped edge is noticeable. With testing the sharpness of an unstropped edge on paper, you can hear the knife cut through. When I take the time to properly stop out a knife, you can't hear a sound when cutting paper. In addition, if you look at the paper where it has been cut, the unstropped paper cut will show very fine hairs. In contrast, a properly stropped knife will leave no visible hairs, not even when looked at under a magnifying glass. 

What causes this difference? A 15x-20x magnifying glass will reveal the answer. Even at 1500 grit or 15 micron, honing leaves scratches on the surface of a blade. These scratches work like micro serrations. Instead of slicing through paper, they saw through it. Using a strop and stepping down in the compound will remove almost all of the micro serrations, leaving the cutting edge smooth. In addition, removing all the micro serrations helps the knife to stay sharp longer.

Incase anyone is wondering, laying the paper or film on a mouse pad or piece of packing foam will create a convex edge.

Steve Hanner said:

Stephen is that all you use to get shaving sharp on your knives?

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on August 22, 2013 at 7:17

The aligner is a good tool if you want a sharpening system that is designed to control the edge angle for you.  The stones are 4.25" long and 7/8" wide so they aren't much good as bench stones.  They are good for taking hunting and such for quick touchups.  They are very light because they are the corrogated type DMT stones.  They are not a solid piece of steel.  The aligner is a "clamp" style system like a Lansky.  You calmp the spine of a knife blade in the clamp.  The other end of the clamp has rods you adjust for the angle you want.  They you stroke the blade edge on the stones which are mounted in a clamp thing with a rod that goes through a hole in one end of the rods.  Go to DMT's site and look at a picture and directions.  I used the aligner for a year or so and might still be using it if a surprise bag of money hadn't come my way.  When I had the extra cash I bought the Edge Pro.  Edge Pro starting price is around $160.  With accessories and/or high quality stones some EP kits can be up to $300 or more.  However, if you want edge accuracy and tool versatility the EP is worth the money increase as long as it doesn't take groceries out of the kids mouths.  Your mouth?  That's ok.  Maybe you could stand to loose a couple pounds anyway. lol  I know I could loose 3 or 4 and be better off. lol  But you gotta keep food in the kids mouth and shoes on their feet. :)  

Problems I have with clamp systems like the aligner.

1. The angle settings are like 14, 17, 20, 23...  You don't have the option of setting the angle between these numbers.  Sometimes this means you need to profile your edge to match the angles of your sharpening system.  That's ok for your knives.  Once they are profiled they are easy to touch up.  But when your buddy hands you his knife it may be a little difficult to touch it up the way you want.  For a quick job you may need to set the angle higher than is needed or desired.  This is a problem with all clamp systems like the aligner.

2. All knife blade spines aren't shaped the same so when you clamp some blades the clamp may not hold the blade at a 90 degree angle.  Then when you sharpen it you will have different angles on opposite sides of the blade.  The bevels will probably be different widths also.  The edge can still shave a gorilla though.  Sharpness possibilities are not compromised.  I have to say I used the aligner the first time I got a knife sharper than ever before.   VERY VERY capable tool  with a couple of drawbacks I hate but can live with.    But if you want a very accurate and versatile "sharpening system" and don't mind investing more money the Edge Pro is definately a better system.  The Wicked Edge is also a great system.  I've never used it but have communicated with others who have.  I  had never heard of the WE when I bought the EP.  Since I have the EP I'm never even been tempted to buy the WE also.  I have one forum friend who has both.  He knows the pros and cons of  each and gets beautiful edges with either.  Just talking to him I think if he could only use one I believe it would be the WE.  But I don't remember him actually saying it.  When considering an expensive, extremely capable sharpening system looking into both in detail is recommended.

Here's the amazing thing.  A few years ago I decided to spend the money to get a knife that would stay sharp a long time.  When I started seeing the prices of these knives I had two heart attacks I think. lol  Then I tried to sharpen my new knife with my old worn out Arkansas stone.  It didn't make a dent in the higher quality steel.  That meant I had to buy new, higher quality stones and the sharpening tool search started.  So to have one knife that would stay sharp a lot longer under the same use and that I could maintain it probably cost 3 times what the knife cost.  You can get a knife with high quality steel for an average of $100 as long as the money is not going toward more expensive handle material and stuff like that.  But to maintain it easily  you will need to spend another $100 to $200 on sharpening bench stones or sharpening systems.  These prices are estimates of course.  But I thought I was going to be able to get away with spending around $50 and that's all.  Wrong.  LIke everything else, if you try to get off cheap we end up with inferior stuff.  Just a matter of what an individual wants and/or can afford.  I'm not rich at all and some of the stones/tools I've bought have been funded by selling a stone I already bought and tried.  All these stones I've tried are not sitting in a box.  I wish I could have kept all of them but reality kept me from it.  I hate tools and things sitting around unused anyway.  Gotten long winded again.  Sorry.

 

Why not just get the DMT aligner set? They have the course, medium and fine stones all in one set and include the Aligner.

All for around $50

Add another $15 and you can get the extra fine as well.

Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on August 22, 2013 at 7:45

In my sharpening I've found that anything a big stone can do, a small stone can do just in more time.

The fact that they're not metal plates doesn't really matter since they're still perfectly flat. In fact, that's one of DMT's biggest claims. That ALL their stones are and stay flat.

For someone on a budget I'd still say, get an aligner set. You don't even need to use the aligner. But the three stones included will sharpen anything you want just fine.

Now if you're looking to spend more money that's always possible offcourse. But you don't HAVE to.

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