iKnife Collector
The online community of knife collectors, A Knife Family Forged in Steel
iKnifeCollector 12 days of Christmas
Our 12 Days Of Christmas contest has been generously sponsored by TSA Knives.
There will be 2 ways to enter.
1) Post to the discussion for each of the 12 days
2) show us how iKC is celebrating the season in your home or work environment (creative use of hat pins maybe?)
I will open this contest discussion on December 13 and the winners name will be drawn on
December 25th!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on
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Hey I kind of like the fish face!
Feathers it is!
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**DAY 11****
Two of the three wise men who visited baby Jesus were traditionally known as Melchior and Caspar. What was the name of the third wise man?
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FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on
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Permalink Reply by Sue OldsWidow on
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Jan
Has to be the owner of Schatt and morgan of course!
some input from the written word!
http://www.knifeworld.com/dollarknives.html
Sue
peter force said:jan- QUEEN.. although between the last SFO Queen produced and now i dont know if their has been any resale of the stamp.
Jan Carter said:Sue,
It is not just everyone that knows the tang Dollar Knife Company...Know who the current owner of that is?
Sue OldsWidow said:
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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by John McCain on -
Day 11 answer-
The Bible doesn't say
The Bible doesn't actually even say that there were three of them, just that they gave the three gifts of gold, frankincense and myrhh. Just that they were wise me from the East. So technically there could have been two of them or 20 for all we know.
However, a tradition from the Middle Ages says that their names were Balthasar, Gaspar (or Casper), and Melchior.
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Permalink Reply by Randall Vaughn on
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Late again on the answers but i was here
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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on
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Who were the three wise men?
When Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of King Herod, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, "Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star at its rising and have come to do him homage."
Matthew, Chapter 2:1,3
Most people would consider a Nativity scene incomplete without three wise men bearing gifts. We learn of the "magi" in Matthew's Gospel. Some people do not believe in the account of the wise men from the East who come to adore Jesus in Bethlehem. Most argue that no other Gospel mentions the wise men. Indeed some say Luke contradicts Matthew. This of course is flawed logic. All four Gospels discuss different aspects of the life of Jesus and no single gospel gives a complete account. To get the most complete picture of Christ, you must read all four Gospels.
So who are these men and what is Frankincense and Myrrh? And why did they bring these gifts along with gold?
The Magi were most likely the Magoi, a sacred caste of the Medes. They provided Priests for Persia. The word Magoi often has the meaning of the word Magician in both the Old and New Testament, though this is not the common interpretation. The Magoi belong to the religion Zoroaster, and magic was strictly forbidden. The Magi were not Kings, despite often being referred to as "Three Kings of Orient" However, Psalm 72 foretells their coming and says they were sent by Kings:
May he rule from sea to sea, from the river to the ends of the earth.
May his foes kneel before him, his enemies lick the dust.
May the kings of Tarshish and the islands bring tribute, the kings of Arabia and Seba offer gifts.
May all kings bow before him, all nations serve him.
For he rescues the poor when they cry out, the oppressed who have no one to help.
He shows pity to the needy and the poor and saves the lives of the poor.
The most appropriate term in English is "Wise Men", even though they are often referred to as Astrologers. Astrology in the time of Christ was not the same as it is today. While it is true the stars were used as signs for upcoming events, and astrologers often interpreted dreams, the same astrology was used to tell when to plant crops and the interpretations of dreams was psychiatry in its infancy.
With that said, who were they?
We don't know? Tradition has it, they came from Persia. Several names have been given to them. The three most common in the Roman Catholic Church are Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar. Of course the Syrian Christian church claims Larvandad, Hormisdas, Gushnasaph and others. We don't even know how many wise men were there! It could be as few as two or perhaps 12 or more! (The Egyptian Coptic Church mentions at least dozen wisemen from all corners of the World.) The reason so many people settle on three wise men, is because three gifts are mentioned in Matthew’s Gospel; gold, frankincense, and myrrh. We have no way of knowing if other gifts, not mentioned, were also brought, and we have no way of knowing if more than one person gave gold, or if one person gave two gifts. What we know is there was more than one magus, and that at least three gifts were given!
So we know they came from at least the East, when did they come?
Strange as it may seem, they probably weren't there the night Jesus was born! Indeed, one reason why Luke may not mention the magi is they may have shown up as much as one or two years later! What we know for sure, is Jesus was probably circumcised before they arrived (He was circumcised eight days after his birth, according to Luke) and Herod was still alive and in Jerusalem. One clue to Jesus already being circumcised is the offering made Joseph makes at the temple (Two Turtle Dove). This was a least expensive offering that could be made for the circumcision and had Joseph already received the gold, he would not have made the such a small offering for this important event in Jesus' live.
The Magi came from Persia, a distant land from Palestine. In fact, they traveled an estimated 1,200 miles over barren deserts, most likely by camel and most likely in a caravan, as would have been the method in those times. Either they began their journey well before the birth of Jesus or they arrived well after the birth. From tradition we know that it was after Christ was presented at the temple and we also know it was less than two years after Jesus was born. Why? Because Matthew tells us:
When Herod realized that he had been deceived by the magi, he became furious. He ordered the massacre of all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had ascertained from the magi.
Of course by the time, the slaughter of the innocents takes place Jesus has already been taken to Egypt by Joseph and Mary.
There is no mention of the Magi in Luke's Gospel and that may be because Luke only focused on the birth, and presentation of our Lord at the Temple. Luke tell us that Jesus returned to Nazareth, which would make sense, as the Holy family only came to Bethlehem for the census and then returned to Nazareth. However, Mary and Jesus are in Bethlehem, when the Magi arrive. However, according to Matthew they are now in a home and not a stable! This would also make sense because Joseph would have tried to find better lodging as soon as possible after the birth. It is possible Joseph and Mary settled in Bethlehem for perhaps as long as two years before going into exile and then finally returning to Nazareth. Tradition has the Magi arriving 12 days after the birth. This would be after the Circumcision of the Lord and well within the two year period of the Slaughter of the Innocents.
But this means the Magi were not at the Nativity?
Not at all! They are still an important part about the birth of Christ. As such there is no reason not to represent them in a nativity scene. What is important to remember is that their coming is marked by the Epiphany of the Lord, the second Sunday after Christmas (around January 6).
You still didn't explain the gifts.
Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh were three very expensive gifts in the time of Jesus. We all know that gold was and is a precious and valuable metal.
Frankincense should not be confounded with incense, which confusion has been made in several passages of the English Bibles. Incense was a mixture of frankincense and other spices. Arabian frankincense, the frankincense par excellence, is the aromatical resin of Boswellia sacra, a tree which grows in southern Arabia; B. papyrifera of Abyssinia yields African frankincense, which is also good.
Myrrh translates from two Hebrew words: (1) Mor (cf. Arab. morr), the aromatic resin produced by Balsamodendron myrrha, (2) Nees, which grows in Arabia and subtropical east Africa. Myrrh was extensively used among the ancients, not only as a perfume but also for embalming, and as an anodyne (pain killer)
All were difficult to come by in the time of Jesus. All three gifts would have been great gifts for a newly born king.
Jan Carter said:**DAY 11****
Two of the three wise men who visited baby Jesus were traditionally known as Melchior and Caspar. What was the name of the third wise man?
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Or a life time of feather dusters!
J.J. Smith III said:New feather bedding for New Years...
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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on
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Balthazar. (But the Bible doesn't mention any of them by name.)
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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Terry Ray on -
Tobias Gibson said:Who were the three wise men?
When Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of King Herod, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, "Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star at its rising and have come to do him homage."
Matthew, Chapter 2:1,3
Most people would consider a Nativity scene incomplete without three wise men bearing gifts. We learn of the "magi" in Matthew's Gospel. Some people do not believe in the account of the wise men from the East who come to adore Jesus in Bethlehem. Most argue that no other Gospel mentions the wise men. Indeed some say Luke contradicts Matthew. This of course is flawed logic. All four Gospels discuss different aspects of the life of Jesus and no single gospel gives a complete account. To get the most complete picture of Christ, you must read all four Gospels.
So who are these men and what is Frankincense and Myrrh? And why did they bring these gifts along with gold?
The Magi were most likely the Magoi, a sacred caste of the Medes. They provided Priests for Persia. The word Magoi often has the meaning of the word Magician in both the Old and New Testament, though this is not the common interpretation. The Magoi belong to the religion Zoroaster, and magic was strictly forbidden. The Magi were not Kings, despite often being referred to as "Three Kings of Orient" However, Psalm 72 foretells their coming and says they were sent by Kings:
May he rule from sea to sea, from the river to the ends of the earth.
May his foes kneel before him, his enemies lick the dust.
May the kings of Tarshish and the islands bring tribute, the kings of Arabia and Seba offer gifts.
May all kings bow before him, all nations serve him.
For he rescues the poor when they cry out, the oppressed who have no one to help.
He shows pity to the needy and the poor and saves the lives of the poor.
The most appropriate term in English is "Wise Men", even though they are often referred to as Astrologers. Astrology in the time of Christ was not the same as it is today. While it is true the stars were used as signs for upcoming events, and astrologers often interpreted dreams, the same astrology was used to tell when to plant crops and the interpretations of dreams was psychiatry in its infancy.
With that said, who were they?
We don't know? Tradition has it, they came from Persia. Several names have been given to them. The three most common in the Roman Catholic Church are Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar. Of course the Syrian Christian church claims Larvandad, Hormisdas, Gushnasaph and others. We don't even know how many wise men were there! It could be as few as two or perhaps 12 or more! (The Egyptian Coptic Church mentions at least dozen wisemen from all corners of the World.) The reason so many people settle on three wise men, is because three gifts are mentioned in Matthew’s Gospel; gold, frankincense, and myrrh. We have no way of knowing if other gifts, not mentioned, were also brought, and we have no way of knowing if more than one person gave gold, or if one person gave two gifts. What we know is there was more than one magus, and that at least three gifts were given!
So we know they came from at least the East, when did they come?
Strange as it may seem, they probably weren't there the night Jesus was born! Indeed, one reason why Luke may not mention the magi is they may have shown up as much as one or two years later! What we know for sure, is Jesus was probably circumcised before they arrived (He was circumcised eight days after his birth, according to Luke) and Herod was still alive and in Jerusalem. One clue to Jesus already being circumcised is the offering made Joseph makes at the temple (Two Turtle Dove). This was a least expensive offering that could be made for the circumcision and had Joseph already received the gold, he would not have made the such a small offering for this important event in Jesus' live.
The Magi came from Persia, a distant land from Palestine. In fact, they traveled an estimated 1,200 miles over barren deserts, most likely by camel and most likely in a caravan, as would have been the method in those times. Either they began their journey well before the birth of Jesus or they arrived well after the birth. From tradition we know that it was after Christ was presented at the temple and we also know it was less than two years after Jesus was born. Why? Because Matthew tells us:
When Herod realized that he had been deceived by the magi, he became furious. He ordered the massacre of all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had ascertained from the magi.
Of course by the time, the slaughter of the innocents takes place Jesus has already been taken to Egypt by Joseph and Mary.
There is no mention of the Magi in Luke's Gospel and that may be because Luke only focused on the birth, and presentation of our Lord at the Temple. Luke tell us that Jesus returned to Nazareth, which would make sense, as the Holy family only came to Bethlehem for the census and then returned to Nazareth. However, Mary and Jesus are in Bethlehem, when the Magi arrive. However, according to Matthew they are now in a home and not a stable! This would also make sense because Joseph would have tried to find better lodging as soon as possible after the birth. It is possible Joseph and Mary settled in Bethlehem for perhaps as long as two years before going into exile and then finally returning to Nazareth. Tradition has the Magi arriving 12 days after the birth. This would be after the Circumcision of the Lord and well within the two year period of the Slaughter of the Innocents.
But this means the Magi were not at the Nativity?
Not at all! They are still an important part about the birth of Christ. As such there is no reason not to represent them in a nativity scene. What is important to remember is that their coming is marked by the Epiphany of the Lord, the second Sunday after Christmas (around January 6).
You still didn't explain the gifts.
Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh were three very expensive gifts in the time of Jesus. We all know that gold was and is a precious and valuable metal.
Frankincense should not be confounded with incense, which confusion has been made in several passages of the English Bibles. Incense was a mixture of frankincense and other spices. Arabian frankincense, the frankincense par excellence, is the aromatical resin of Boswellia sacra, a tree which grows in southern Arabia; B. papyrifera of Abyssinia yields African frankincense, which is also good.
Myrrh translates from two Hebrew words: (1) Mor (cf. Arab. morr), the aromatic resin produced by Balsamodendron myrrha, (2) Nees, which grows in Arabia and subtropical east Africa. Myrrh was extensively used among the ancients, not only as a perfume but also for embalming, and as an anodyne (pain killer)
All were difficult to come by in the time of Jesus. All three gifts would have been great gifts for a newly born king.
What were the names of the three wise men?
We really don’t know their names, because the Bible doesn’t tell us. However, tradition has it that the wise men who came to honor the infant Jesus were named Gaspar, Balthasar, and Melchior.
Jan Carter said:**DAY 11****
Two of the three wise men who visited baby Jesus were traditionally known as Melchior and Caspar. What was the name of the third wise man?
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