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Military Knives

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Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 22, 2013 at 14:03

USMC Fighting Knife (smaller version) KaBar Olean NY

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on September 22, 2013 at 15:05

So sweet. Great knife.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on September 24, 2013 at 10:33

Very interesting thread. This is a Canadian forces WWI military knife. The M & D stands for Militia and Defence. It was made by Thomas Turner & Co Sheffield following a similar pattern to the British military knife at the time but with metal scales rather than the typical buffalo horn.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 24, 2013 at 11:23

What a Knife, 1916.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 24, 2013 at 12:25

For the Record, the M&D knives were not just used by Canadians. During WWI (and in WWII) Canada produced a numerous items for British Forces, including rifles, knives, bayonets, etc. In fact, one of the more interesting items made by the Canadians for British Forces was the American Infield Rifle No 3, Mk1. The rifle was originally known as the Pattern 14 or just P14.

The American name for the Rifle was the M1917. The rifles were made in the USA and Canada for use by British Forces in the trenches. (all of the Rifles were shipped from Canada (or secretly from New York) It was considered to be the most accurate rifle in use by the British and primarily relegated to sniper duty. It continued to be the primary sniper rifle in the British Army throughout WWII. The Rifle had orginally been developed as a Replacement for the M1903 Springfield but because all production went to supply the British and Commonwealth forces, it was never officially adopted into US Service.

The M&D knives on the other had were a Canadian pattern 6353/1905 knife and one of the first all steel clasp knives in British/Allied services. The reason the steel scales was because the other materials were scarce, tended to break, and made manufacturing more difficult. While Canadians also received the knives, the initial contract was to fill the shortages in the British Army. While the knife looks like a sailors rigging knife, this pattern of knife was standard issue for all British Forces.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on September 24, 2013 at 14:07

Hi Toby. Great info on the knives and rifles. Thanks. This WWI Canadian military issue knife was made by Wostenholm. It has the more common horn scales as typically found on British 6353 knives.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 24, 2013 at 14:30

It is interesting that there are so many folders showing up here. When Most people hear military knives, the normal image is a big ol' fixed blade or bayonet.

I know they're quite common but here is my Spanish Mauser Bayonet. Bought back when I was 16-17 years old. (without parental permission!) I think it cost a whopping $5.00. At the current rate of Inflation, I think I over paid for it back then! LOL

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 24, 2013 at 15:18

That's some bayonet Tobias - how long is that? Its almost like a sword.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 24, 2013 at 16:07

The overall length is 21 inches with blade approximately 16 inches long. It's a typical sword bayonet. Most armies started shortening the bayonets during WWI because they were unwieldy and often difficult to remove from things that got stabbed. (Don't get me started on Saw Tooth backed combat knives!)

There was in fact two competing philosophies with bayonets during WWI.

1) You needed a long bayonet so that you could engage the enemy at a farther distance and penetrate the thick overcoats and any body armor. The long bayonet also aided in probing for mines.

2) You need a relatively short bayonet because a long bayonet would make the end of your rifle heavy and cause your aim to be off. It was also less likely to pass all the way through the enemy and get stuck causing you to lose your rifle in the middle of a battle.

By the beginning of WWII most nations were switching over to bayonets measuring 8-10 inches and giving up on the sword bayonets. (Philosophy number 2 had won out) The British still had the pattern 1907 bayonet used on the Mk III SMLE (also a veteran of WWI) and this bayonet and Rifle would remain in service with ANZAC troops throughout the war and beyond. But by 1943, most British and Commonwealth forces had adopted the newer Lee Enfield No 4 Mk I rifle which used the new No. 4 Socket Bayonet measuring 10 inches.

Americans also went from a 16 inch sword bayonet used with the M1903a5 Springfield to a 10 inch M1 Bayonet. German Kar 98 bayonets also dropped from 17-19 inches to just shy of 10 inches.

By the end of WWII Bayonets had evolved from a pointy spear tip for a rifle with no bullets to a multi-role device that could be used as a spear point in a pinch but more importantly as a useful utility/fighting knife.

Of course in the Pacific theater, the Japanese retained their 22 inch long sword bayonets which made many a Marines keep or scrounge up the older 16 inch sword bayonets that worked on both the Springfield and M1 rifles. Unfortunately for the British and Commonwealth forces, the bayonet used was dependent on the rifle issued.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on December 9, 2013 at 18:03

SMKW was selling these for $8 or there-abouts! I had to pick one up. Its a Cold War Ere Romanian made AKM type 1 Bayonet.

These babies were all the rage back when I was just going in the army and the Cold War was at its peak! They were the envy of the US soldiers whose own bayonet was just a glorified pig sticker! The Commies had a bayonet that have a saw tooth back and you can use the blade and sheath as wire cutter! And its insulated so you can cut through electrical lines! Before the death of the Warsaw Pact these things were more expensive and more difficult to come by. Now the various Warsaw Pact countries are flooding the market with old surplus.

All in all a pretty cool knife at a very reasonable price. (especially with the $5 shipping deal! and combined with other purchases!)

The condition seems to be unused or barely used. Mine had a matching scabbard. They are selling them in an "As found condition"

(the Soviet Belt was a gift from my wife when she visited the Soviet Union back in 1982. She smuggled the belt out for me!) Note the matching serial numbers. The type 1 is the older bayonet made for the AKM. for those who are unfamiliar, the AKM is the upgraded version of the AK47. It was first issued in 1959. It looks very similar. The rather bulbous pommel of the bayonet is a dead give away that marks this as the type-1.

The bayonet is positioned on the lug of the scabbard. Their is a sharpened area just below the clip point and the saw blade area that is used to cut wire. The handle of the knife is hard plastic with plastic plugs covering the screws. A thick rubber sleeve covers the end of the scabbard to provide insulation and allow cutting electrical lines.

The blade is approximately 6 inches (15.25 CM) long with a chisel grind, top and bottom. It acutally is double sided. As you can see, the main cutting edge face upward when mounted on the AKM. The leather strap is to aid in gripping the knife when using it as a knife instead of a bayonet.

The Romanian Type 1 and my BOC M7 Bayonet used on the M16. This bayonet's blade remained unchanged from WWII, first appearing on the M3 Trench Knife and then the M4 Bayonet used with the M1. Carbine. The M7 entered service in 1964. Replacement of the M7 began in 1984 but it was still in use by reserve units well after 2001. The blade is 6 3/4 inches 17 cm.

While it is not as functional as the AKM bayonet, I will give it props for feeling more comfortable in the hand and having a dull finish to the blade. The handles on the M7 are held in place by simple screws and are easily removed with a screwdriver. As you can see the cutting edge on the M7 is on the bottom when the bayonet is attached to the M16, directly opposite that of the AKM type 1 bayonet.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on December 9, 2013 at 18:31

That is neat Tobias, I might look into that.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on January 3, 2014 at 17:06

Christmas Present from Santa.

Polish 6H4 type bayonet

The Polish variant was used with the Polish 7.62 mm. KBK AKM assault rifle.

The Bayonet is a copy of the Russian 6X4 bayonet, However, it differs by the absence of saw teeth on the blade spine. The Polish AKM Type II bayonet represents a transition between the AKM Type I and Type II bayonets, mating the Type I scabbard with the Type II bayonet.

From what I understand, when the Poles made their 5.45 MM Assault Rifle (the Wz 88 Tantal) and the later 5.56 mm Wz 91) capable of still accepting the 6H4 Bayonet by keeping the muzzle flash diameter the same as on the old Polish made KBK AKMs.

The belt hanger is typical of the Soviet/Warsaw Pact Bayonets.

Type one scabbard with thick rubber sleeve to prevent electric shock, leather belt hangar, and knife bayonet with burnt orange hard plastic grip and leather strap.

My wife smuggled the belt out of the old soviet union back in 1982. A present for me!