Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lee Saunders on June 20, 2012 at 18:30

Neither are WWI to WWII, however....

The first is an Imperial Rope Knife

The next is a Smith & Wesson with a Marline Spike, all metal jacket...

I was bidding in an auction for an antique version of this knife instead I have a brand new one with an original paper wrapping and box.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on June 20, 2012 at 18:48

They are great Lee, that new one should last way past our knife lives....lol

Permalink Reply by Lee Saunders on June 21, 2012 at 23:06

I have questions about these three knives but am posting them to see what you folks think.

One of the Marline spike knives have marks on the Tang and on the blade with the tang marks, but they are marks I have never seen and cannot find ANY info about in my books or online.

The Tang is marked with something like H.S. 45 and the blade of that same knife seems to read A5R with an up arrow and 55 (sorry it is upside down).

Here are all 3 knives, the above Rigger is the top of these three.

The 2nd knife is a Ka-Bar Rigging Knife and seems to have problems as well.  The bale on this knife does not come back over the blade and it seems that either the bale is added as an afterthought or the blade does not beling on this knife.

It will not move any further than it does in this photo.

The last nife is really nice.  It is a Camillus Rope Knife.  I have a couple of problems.  The knife is the smallest Rope Knife I have ever seen.  Now, I am not an expert, but this blade is like a mini-knife.  Closed it is just over three inches.  I would not want to be on a ship and be expected to cut a bit 5 inch rope.  Heck, even a one inch rope would be hard i think.  i know some of you know a hell of a lot more than I do....thoughts?

I like these types of knives so much, but these three each have been concerned.  I hate to be paranoid....but I am paranoid!

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on June 22, 2012 at 7:53

Lee, I can't help you with the markings on the knives but the small rope knife is a pattern that has been sold for years. I have an old one that's made by Camillus I think. It was sold as a utility or electrician's knife.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on June 22, 2012 at 9:31

Lee, Here is what I can tell you straight off,  The first knife with the split blade can-opener is a Pattern 317 three piece clasp knife which saw active service with the British from 1939 into the 195os and probably remains in use in small numbers today because so many were made.  It was military issue for either British or Commonweath forces (that's what the arrow designates) probably from 1955. I'll need to look around a bit for who made it.

Your second knife is a Kabar pattern 1192 rigging knife.  The bail is used to release  the locking spike and it indeed has a limited range of motion as it acts as lever to release the locked spike.  If the spike  does not lock and if the locked spike is not released with pressure on the bail, then there is a problem with the knife.

The last knife is actually normally sold as an electrician's or utility knife . However, the knife began life as a small sailor's Jack. The knife is essentially a one blade version of  the  "easy open" No. 40N U.S. Navy Jack Knife issued during World War I and the decade that followed. The only difference is this model lacks a secondary manicure file found on the issued knife but is otherwise it is identical in layout.  The issue knives were made principally by Camillus and Schatt & Morgan. For this reason alone, it is worthy to be listed among sailing knives. 

Camillus made this knife easy open knife in at least three versions for the civilian market:  1- with main coping blade and secondary manicure blade,  2- main coping and secondary pen blade, and 3 single coping blade.  The single coping blade is most common you will run into because they made tons of them.

The reason the knife was so small is because sailors ACTUALLY asked for a knife of this size, as the other 5 inch knives were big and bulky.  Sailors tended to use a fixed blade knife or a small locally procured pocket knife over the big old five inch knives.  As for why the original had a nail file - again sailors wanted it. It came in handy for fixing cracked nails and digging out splinters, common problems sailors ran into while doing chores on deck.

The knife actually makes a great second knife, light in the pocket, easy to open and ideal for small jobs.  Mine is a Camillus made Klein Tools.

You got three fine knives.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on June 22, 2012 at 10:15

Lee, The top knife looks to me like an Indian-made knife in the style of the British military clasp knife.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on June 22, 2012 at 10:34

Here is a similar knife to your's between the British WWI and WWII patterns.

Permalink Reply by Lee Saunders on June 22, 2012 at 15:25

Thank you guys for all of the great information on those three knives I have had concerns about.

It looks like my concerns are pretty much unnecessary.

Plus it's just great to see all of the knife nuts that live at iKC!  You guys are excellent.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on June 22, 2012 at 16:08

You're welcome. This is a good view of the British GI Broad Arrow and year mark for comparison. 

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 24, 2012 at 16:11

WOW... That really is some great information.  Thank you for for responding.  Tobias, I have to add, I always wondered why knifes came with that little file.  As a lady I have tried to use them on multiple occasions but they are terrible on the nails LOL.

Permalink Reply by Smiling-Knife on June 26, 2012 at 12:10

The 1905 pattern was in service right up to the very beginning of WWII.

 

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on June 26, 2012 at 18:06

Smiling Knife,

Your comment is not really in accurate.  The British adopted a new pattern shortly before the beginning of WWII however, many knife companies, especially those servicing Commonwealth forces continued to produce older patterns because they were already tooled to do so and it would've been cost prohibitive and meant a delay in production to do otherwise.  Also existing stocks of the older pattern continued to be issued to British and commonwealth forces throughout the war and even after the war.

The same is true with the the WWI  knuckle knives which were already obsolete before the war but were held in reserve and then pressed into service. And the kniucle knives were not only pressed  into  with the British army but were an issue item up until 1943 with US forces.  Thus many of the so called WWI MK-I trench knives are not nearly as old as people think.

Smiling-Knife said:

The 1905 pattern was in service right up to the very beginning of WWII.

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