Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on December 4, 2013 at 18:33

I'd say those stones should get you through lunch tomorrow. :)  I'm eager to hear how the 320 does myself.  I have the 500 grit for the EP and it does real good reprofiling even the harder steels.  I bet the 320 does real good.  How are the other Shaptons doing for you?

 

Jack

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on December 4, 2013 at 18:52

Wow nice!  I have the 500, 1000, 2000, 4000 and 8000. That 320 sounds pretty good if you have a lot to remove.  (Technically I don't know I have these) but actually I have tried the 500 and the 1000 and had some success. I mean a lot of success right off the bat. Better than any traditional stone I tried. So Shapton it is so far and loving the results. 

I echo Jack's comment how are the stones you have doing? Have you had success, Any issues or problems?

Permalink Reply by Stephen L. Corley on December 5, 2013 at 7:46

The only issues with the first 3 would be with the 8k. It has a tendency to become loaded and will need lapping before I finish with it. It may not need lapping, but I will lap it. Also, it is a little soft and if you're not careful, you can cut into it. It took me a month to get really good with them. In that month I did a lot of honing. If I didn't have a dull knife, I would dull one just to sharpen it. I'll be good to go for a while. In a year from now I'll start itching again and buy some new ones. I almost bought Naniwa Super Stones for the lower grits, but convinced myself to stick with Shapton. Oh! I almost forgot. They seem to work a little better if you take a med grit diamond plate and work up a slurry before you start sharpening. I haven't formed a final opinion on that one.
I'm jumping around all over the place but thing are just popping into my mind as I am writing. The finer the grit, the more exact each stroke has to be and the lighter the pressure has to be. 8k takes very very very light pressure.
Well. that is all that's popping in my head for now. Ya'll have a good day and keep them sharp.

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on December 5, 2013 at 8:02

Thanks for the heads up on the 8k. I have not used that one yet and I guess I better pay a lot of attention to it! In fact it makes me wonder, as I go up in grits say 16000k or even 30000k will I be faced with softer stones? Are you saying its best to get that diamond plate before I start to take care of problems I am most likely going to have?

The slurry first thing is a great idea. I think that helps considerably!

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on December 5, 2013 at 9:39

Stephen, I agree about the 8k in everything you said.  It seems the finer grit stones seem to get clogged or glazed over faster than the coarser ones. I think this is due to any pores are smaller and fill up with swarf faster than the larger pores on coarser stones.  This is probably on a microscopic level as far as size goes.  I base this opinion on my infinate ignorance. :)  I try to wash the stone off a couple of times instead of lapping each time they get loaded.  I hate to just grind away a part of the stone.  I don't know how smart this is because all the pros seem to lap often.  Also, keeping the stone as flat as possible is more important than I understand I think.  I was on the phone with Ken Schwartz and he emphasized how important it was but to be honest I understood what he was saying a little bit but now I have a hard time remembering the actual reason a flat stone is better.  That may mean I didn't actually "get it".  But I've found it better to just take advice even if I don't understand the reasons all the time when I'm new at something and the advice giver has 20-30 years behind him.  Ken Schwartz is the guy who manufactures and sells some of the better quality abrasive sprays for strops (and stones sometimes).  His products are on chefknivestogo.com.  His products are expensive but they work GREAT.  I also agree about using UNBELIEVABLE, EXTREMELY light strokes on the finer grits.  Strokes so light it's hard to believe any steel could be removed.  Very very little steel is being removed but that's what you want shen going for the ultra-sharp, crisp edges.

@Steve.  I have the 16k stone for the Edge Pro.  It's hard to imagine but you can tell a difference in the edge after using it after the 8k.  But, I don't know if I could get the angle control free hand that you need at this grit level.  I can only get this accuracy by using the Edge Pro.  But during every day cutting instead of "testing" it's now as obvious.  When opening a cardboard box the 8k and 16k edge feels the same to me.  But when slicing phone book paper you can feel it. Also, with the Edge Pro extremely light strokes are still as important.  I ask anyone reading this to focus on the light stroke issue.  I  am not a know it all.  I am a know it some. lol  And some of what I know now is how important the light stroke is.  If anyone hasn't tried this try it the next time you sharpen.  Hold the knife handle between your thumb and one or two fingers very lightly.  Lay the blade on the stone and pay attention to the "feeling" with only the weight of the blade on the stone.  Then hold the handle at the very end and lay the edge on the stone.  Now there is more pressure because your fingers are farther away from the balance point.  Developing this feeling is important I think because this amount of pressure is what light stroke means.  As you stroke you can feel when the edge is on the stone and also if your angle lowers during the stroke you can feel when the edge is no longer on the edge and just the bevel is contacting the stone.  Do these strokes VERY slowly paying attention to the feeling.  With practice we get faster and still get the "feeling".  Trying to go fast too quickly is a common mistake.  This is a mistake I make often.

Stephen, I'm glad you are having good results.  These stones are the only "expensive" stones I've used and I can tell a big difference in the performance between them and the water stones that came with the EP for example.  They are expensive though so if anyone is considering getting new stones and wants to know they will do a great job but doesn't want to spend this much money I recommend the Spyderco stones.  T

he

Stephen L. Corley said: The only issues with the first 3 would be with the 8k. It has a tendency to become loaded and will need lapping before I finish with it. It may not need lapping, but I will lap it. Also, it is a little soft and if you're not careful, you can cut into it. It took me a month to get really good with them. In that month I did a lot of honing. If I didn't have a dull knife, I would dull one just to sharpen it. I'll be good to go for a while. In a year from now I'll start itching again and buy some new ones. I almost bought Naniwa Super Stones for the lower grits, but convinced myself to stick with Shapton. Oh! I almost forgot. They seem to work a little better if you take a med grit diamond plate and work up a slurry before you start sharpening. I haven't formed a final opinion on that one.

I'm jumping around all over the place but thing are just popping into my mind as I am writing. The finer the grit, the more exact each stroke has to be and the lighter the pressure has to be. 8k takes very very very light pressure.
Well. that is all that's popping in my head for now. Ya'll have a good day and keep them sharp.

Permalink Reply by Stephen L. Corley on December 5, 2013 at 15:32

Steve, I believe you definitely need to invest in a lapping plate before you get any farther with your Shaptons.

Permalink Reply by Stephen L. Corley on December 5, 2013 at 17:26

2 friends wanted me to sharpen their knives for them, a Buck 110 and a Case Sod Buster. The 320 cut them fast, real fast. The 1k removed the scratches quickly and I finished them with the 2k. Man, these things remove a lot of metal, fast. The DMT I bought for a lapping plate is heavy. A little too heavy for my preference but it will probably be good because it wont flex with hand pressure. I saw a video with someone putting the DMT plate on the stone holder and rubbing the stone across it. I'm going to try that approach next time.

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on December 5, 2013 at 17:59

Glad to hear about the 320.  I may have to get one for my Edge Pro.  I don't have a DMT for lapping.  I have the 140 grit diamond stone on CKTG but it is heavy like the DMT stones.  I always put my water stones on top because it's easier to control the pressure.  BTW, I dropped one of my DMT stones on my bare foot.  ouch!  I recommend steel toe boots whan using DMT stones. lol  Or maybe a little more coordination. :)

Jack

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on December 5, 2013 at 18:57

OK and you bought that where may I ask?

Stephen L. Corley said:

Steve, I believe you definitely need to invest in a lapping plate before you get any farther with your Shaptons.

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on December 5, 2013 at 19:00

Ouch is right!, you know where you do this and the angle you sit or stand at is all pretty important too. I remember Stephen talking about that early on. I find I have to stand to control it and get the right touch.

Jack Haskins, Jr. said:

Glad to hear about the 320.  I may have to get one for my Edge Pro.  I don't have a DMT for lapping.  I have the 140 grit diamond stone on CKTG but it is heavy like the DMT stones.  I always put my water stones on top because it's easier to control the pressure.  BTW, I dropped one of my DMT stones on my bare foot.  ouch!  I recommend steel toe boots whan using DMT stones. lol  Or maybe a little more coordination. :)

Jack

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on December 5, 2013 at 19:54

Here is the one I have.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html

Or this one if you don't have a stone holder (and want one).

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/xxcdiplandun.html

Or you can get this one if you want.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shdilapl.html

Lots of people use the XXC DMT stone to flatten with.  I use the XC DMT grit but I only have it in a 2x6" size.  The flattening stone needs to be either the same size or bigger than the stones we are flattening I think.  I have an XC DMT 4" stone that will remove material from a water stone but I'm sure I would remove more from some spots on an 8" stone and less from others.  So the only time I would use my DMT stone is for my 2x6" EP size stones.  The one I have ($30) seems to work fine for my needs.  It may not last as long as a DMT or the Shapton.  DMT has a lapping stone also but I think it runs around $180.  Maybe the quality of the expensive stones is better but how does that quality make my stones flatter?  Maybe there's a good reason to spend 10 times what mine cost but I don't know it.  I'll probably ask one day on the CKTG forum but knowing something won't put $379 in my pocket. :)

You guys might want to check out ebay seller 330_mate. I found him recently.  He is in Japan and the wording on his ebay store indicates him don't speak good english. :)  But he has good prices.  But whatever you order will take 4-6 weeks to get to your house.  He has LOTS of stuff including Japanese knives, kitchen cutlery and a bunch of stuff.  I think he is one of the old timer Japanese knife makers.  I may have to get one of the knives he advertises with Japanese hammer forged steel blades.  Some of them aren't too expensive.

Jack

Steve Hanner said:

OK and you bought that where may I ask?

Stephen L. Corley said:

Steve, I believe you definitely need to invest in a lapping plate before you get any farther with your Shaptons.

Permalink Reply by Jack Haskins, Jr. on December 5, 2013 at 19:58

Steve, if you decide you want an XX DMT stone cutleryshoppe.com has about as good prices as I've seen. 

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