Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 27, 2011 at 20:54

Haven't heard from Dave, he must be playing with his new Red Wine. :)

I certainly hope so, I hate the anticipation.

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Dave Taylor on June 27, 2011 at 21:55

Here I am, and you're right, I've spent a pleasant afternoon getting aquainted with my new GEC #72 Red Wine Jigged Bone.  The Red Wine is one of my favorite GEC bone colors and the jigging on this knife is attractive and unique as well as affording a firm grip on the knife.  Everything good jigged bone is meant to do. 

 

Upon close examination of my knife I was very pleased to find a tight fit of the bone against the bolsters, a detail I have too often been disappointed with.  This knife shows almost seamless fit and I appreciate that a lot.  One area of the bone jigging, up near the cut out area of the locking bar, displayed some chipping leaving a noticeable rough spot that I will have to sand down a bit to smooth it out.  Like a broken fingernail it will only worsen if not taken care of.

 

The blade rolled open effortlessly, as expected, and locked up with authority.  One of the details I appreciate about the 440-C blade knives is their smoother opening due to the chromium content of the steel which gives them a smoother finish in final polishing.  No side play in the blade of course, however I was disappointed to find a slight bit of vertical play in the blade preventing it from locking up bank vault tight.  A tight lock-up is the hallmark of a quality Lockback knife, and something everyone who examines a lockback immediately looks for.  Sad to say mine did not "pass the test".

 

Will this slight bit of vertical movement compromise the integrity of the blade lock?

No.  It absolutely will not.

Am I worried that the lock may give way under hard use?

No.  The lock will stand anything I ask it to do, without question.

But vertical blade movement has no place in a quality Lockback knife, and it is disappointing to find it there.

In defense of GEC, these knives are all hand fitted and the run up of the blade is adjusted by hand to fit the locking bar.  If I were fitting perhaps a hundred or more knives during a days work I'm sure I would not get them all perfect.  One stroke of the file is all it takes to remove a couple of thousands of an inch too much and it cannot be put back.  The Lockback  has much closer tolerances on blade back square than a regular spring back knife so it isn't easy to obtain perfection.

 

Everything else about my knife I find excellent in every respect.  This knife will be a joy to use and carry and I look forward to many years of faithful service from my new companion.  I received word that a pair of Elk 72's were shipped today so there will soon be others to evaluate and enjoy.  I look forward to their arrival also.

 

Because of the overall high quality of my GEC #72 Mini-Lockback, in Red Wine Jigged Bone, with only a couple of imperfections, (the smoothing of the bone I can adjust myself), I will give my new knife a Grade of  "A".

 

 

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Dave Taylor on June 27, 2011 at 22:14

Johnny, congratulations on your Elk 72.  Absolutely beautiful.  I've been studying your photos trying to figure out just what makes that knife an EDC.  I can't see a thing to critique. 

Unique and clever Presentation in those photos by the way.  You're a real Pro!

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 28, 2011 at 7:34

First off thanks Dave, I enjoy getting out with a camera, just trying to show off the true beauty I find in a quality folder is a fun experience.

 

The Elk is just about perfect, a little gap in the shield, according to Bob, and there is a little one but nothing thats gonna affect the knife's use.

 

I share your complaint on the Red Wine, I was disappointed to find that mine had a goodly amount of vertical play, to the extent that when I try to cut a thicker material the blade "clicks' back, and when I release the pressure it "clicks" forward. Not a huge problem, but I'm thinking about contacting GEC about it, plus my EDC Elk has a tighter lock.

 

I do appreciate the knives, I've had lockbacks with worse problems then these, but I do expect a perfect knife from GEC, especially because they know how to make one. I'll think about it, maybe use the knife some more and see how it goes.

 

Congrats Dave, I hope you enjoy those Elk too. : )

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 28, 2011 at 16:49

Dave,

Have you tried a thicker material as Johnny described?  I am sorry you are both having the verticle play issue. 

 

Johnny,

Because of the clicking forward and back on your red wine 72 I think you should contact Chris.  Dave is correct that a little verticle play will not affect the lock or the blade capabilities but it does sound like yours has a touch more than a little play.

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 28, 2011 at 16:53

Yeah Jan, I was afraid I'd have to send my new buddy back. :(

 

But, I do get to spend some extra time with my Elk. :)

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Dave Taylor on June 28, 2011 at 17:15

Jan, I agree.  That sounds like a bit too much play to me.  The "clicking" back and forward seems excessive, and irritating for sure.  Installing a new blade would be an easy fix and the knife would then be "right" and something GEC can be proud to have out in the field.

 

The verticle movement in mine is not so great.  Not even as much as the verticle movement in the Tidioute #72 I have on my belt right now.  On the Tidioute the gap between the blade and locking bar is about .020 - .025 thousandths, which doesn't sound like much until one sees the movement of a full 1/16th of an inch and more out at the tip of the blade.  My new GEC 72 has about half that gap but it is still noticeable movement.  It seems one too many strokes of the file can do much.

 

Interestingly, of the five #72's I currently own, 4 Tidioutes and 1 GEC, (the newest), 1 Tidioute Clip Blade and the GEC Clip Blade have verticle blade movement.  My third Clip Blade and both of my Wharncliff Blade knives lock up bank vault solid, as they should.  For me personally, that is two knives out of five with verticle blade movement.

What is that percentage-wise? 

   

I expect my two GEC Elk 72's may show up tomorrow and I will be checking them over closely as I always do.  As you know by now, if I can't find something to critique then it just doesn't exist.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but I kiss no one's ring.   

 

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 28, 2011 at 17:22

Right on Dave, I just sent GEC an E-mail, so we'll se how it goes.

I'm sure they will make it right, I wasn't sure if this was a problem they had with the #72, but after I got my Elk I realized how bad the Red Wine was.

 

I hope things get turned around, because I'd hate to see the #72s having repeated issues.

 

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Dave Taylor on June 28, 2011 at 19:45

I have every confidence that GEC will indeed make it right. 

It's an easy fix and I'll bet it will end up locking as it should.

 

Actually I think it is pretty great what GEC accomplishes with all the hands on steps that go into making the knives and they are highly skilled craftsmen and women.  They are making superior pocket knives and doing it the old fashion way.  Each and every person puts a little bit of themselves into every knife they adjust and assemble and, for me, that is part of the attraction of GEC's.  I'll bet more than a few got by the old timers and went out the door a little less than perfect in the old days.  The folks at GEC can be rightly proud of what they do.

 

We now have computer controlled milling machines that can turn out absolutely perfect parts.  Thousands of them in a work shift.  Each of those parts will be within tolerances of half a thousanth of an inch and the machine will even adjust itself for tool wear as it makes the parts.  Every single lockblade knife those machines make will lock up tight.  Every time.  But those machines cost many, many thousands of dollars.  Far too much for even a medium size company to afford.  So at GEC it is the skill of human hands that does the work.  I think they do it very well.

 

Although the vertical blade movement on some of these 72's is a serious and disappointing thing there is still a lot to like about this knife.  I have not accidently cut myself once with my 72's.  The blades roll open almost effortlessly and lock up with a pleasing snap.  They close again the same way.  The locking bar actuates smoothly and easily.  The entire knife smacks of GEC high quality and I have to look hard to find something to fault.  I like that.  The 72's are just about a perfect pocket carry size, yet they are big enough to do real work, and I still can't seem to decide whether I like the Clip blade or the Wharncliffe blade the best so I end up carrying both.

 

Yeah, I absolutely hate that vertical blade movement, slight as it is, but I really do like the knife.

I guess that's why I currently own five of them.

With two more on the way. 

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 29, 2011 at 19:03

Well Johnny I am sure you will miss the red wine while she is away but assured the great folks at GEC will make her feel the love while she is visiting them.  She will come home with some fine shine and stories (I'll bet if you listen hard enough you will hear them)

KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Dave Taylor on June 30, 2011 at 15:55

My two new #72 Mini-Lockback knives, in American Elk, arrived yesterday.

The Clip blade model has reversed it's route and will, I am told, eventually be returned to GEC for "adjustment".  I believe we have discussed the Clip blade #72 in minute detail here previously so I will not repeat notations already made.

 

I also received one of the Wharncliffe blade #72's, also in American Elk.  The Elk on mine is absolutely beautiful and I am very happy with this long awaited and requested handle material.  I hope we will enjoy more of the American Elk on other knife patterns.  The 440-C steel blade is a personal favorite of mine and I am glad to see it used on this knife.  Again I hope we will see more of it on other future pattern runs. 

 

I did notice a minimal amount of vertical blade movement in the locked position on my knife, but nothing that I find too objectionable in this case.  There is a bit of lateral side to side movement of the blade in the closed position, which is not present in my other #72's, and keeps the blade from resting in a centered position within the frame.  One feature that I especially appreciate on this Wharncliffe blade is the fact that it rests a bit lower in the frame when closed than on previous runs.  This will keep the blade from pricking a finger tip when repeated sharpenings eventually raise the tip of the blade.  Good work GEC, and thanks!! 

 

All in all I am very happy with this, my 6th #72 Mini-Lockback.  The performance I know I will enjoy from the 440-C blade steel, plus the absolute beauty and feel of the Elk covers, will prevent this knife from remaining behind at home. 

 

I sincerely thank GEC for this run of #72's.  The 440-C blade steel and the American Elk combine to make a great combination in a knife.    

 

Permalink Reply by johnny twoshoes on June 30, 2011 at 17:16

Sorry to hear you have one headed back already. But, I'm more than pleased to know that you got a good hunk of Elk on that wharncliffe #72.  I look forward to the real review after some pocket time, and those wharncliffes look great. 

 

I enjoyed a cup of coffee with my Red Wine this morning, I even did a final cut before placing her back in the cardboard cage, I miss her already. I really do love that knife, I can't wait till it's back in my hands, and pocket, then we can get some real EDC time in. I know she'll be in good hands shortly, so no worry, but I'll enjoy my Elk more I guess.

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