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USA versus the World. (This ain't Soccer, Fussball, futbol!)
I know several people feel a need to buy only USA made knives. Some worry about the quality of knives made elsewhere. Others say it has to do with buying trusted brands. Still others state it is to save American jobs.
1) Is this embargo on any foreign made knife or just knives made overseas by American owned companies? For instance will you refuse to by a Swiss Army Knife out of Switzerland or Condor knife out of El-Salvador. What about a Boker made in China?
2) If your concern is the quality of steel in the knife, are you aware that many of the knives that are Made in America use steel imported from China. Same goes with many American made automobiles. (you know the ones, those American cars with motors made in Mexico, South Korea, and Canada!)
3) Are you aware that some American knife companies are actually owned by larger corporations that are international in scope and are headquartered overseas?
4) Do you truly believe that any knife made in the USA is better than anything that can be made in China, Pakistan or Bulgaria.
5) Do you believe that raising tariffs to increase the price of foreign made knives sold in the US would actually level the playing field and improve the quality of American knives?
6) If American made knives are superior to knives made in other countries, then why don’t they sell better in the overseas market?
7) Do Germans care as much about where the knife comes from? What about the British, Fins, Dutch, Brazillians, etc. What do you people from other lands think of American made knives compared to those made elsewhere? Better, worse, or about the same?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on
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I appreciate knives from anywhere in the world as I believe they all serve a purpose for our hobby. Either getting people in or keeping them into collecting.
The notion that raising tariffs on importation of knives, levels the playing field is not sound policy. If you are going to compete then compete. If you produce knives what is your market? Know it and target that market. It's that simple. Deal honestly with folks and give them value for the dollar and they will beat a path to your door.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on
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All knives are pretty much foreign made to me, as we have very few manufacturers here in Canada. However, I don't see much of a quality difference between foreign and supposed US made stuff. With quality controls in place as they are, the overseas quality is getting better for those outsourcing companies. I can't fault a company for trying to save money, especially if it keeps these companies alive and producing. As Steve said...keep it honest and maintain quality...and customers will respond to that. To say every knife produced in the States is superior to anything else around is just...well...wrong. So many knives have been produced from other countries long before the States or Canada were even countries, and so many techniques and steels developed, that claiming ultimate mastery seems just wrong.
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Permalink Reply by Alexander Noot on
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My view will be tinted a little differently since I live in the Netherlands....a country with virtually NO cutlery heritage.
1) Is this embargo on any foreign made knife or just knives made overseas by American owned companies? For instance will you refuse to by a Swiss Army Knife out of Switzerland or Condor knife out of El-Salvador. What about a Boker made in China?
If I would then I'd have to refuse all knives. Since like I said no industry other than some local custom makers. I also don't care if a company makes their knives elsewhere from where the corporate headquarters are located.
2) If your concern is the quality of steel in the knife, are you aware that many of the knives that are Made in America use steel imported from China. Same goes with many American made automobiles. (you know the ones, those American cars with motors made in Mexico, South Korea, and Canada!)
I am.....and I don't care.
3) Are you aware that some American knife companies are actually owned by larger corporations that are international in scope and are headquartered overseas?
I am.
4) Do you truly believe that any knife made in the USA is better than anything that can be made in China, Pakistan or Bulgaria.
I do not. I do not believe geographic location is what makes the difference.
5) Do you believe that raising tariffs to increase the price of foreign made knives sold in the US would actually level the playing field and improve the quality of American knives?
I do not. They have done so for years over here and things like that don't work. Raising the prices on foreign work actually does the exact opposite since now local manufacturers have an immediate price advantage that makes sure that they have to pay LESS attention to detail in the manufacturing process.
6) If American made knives are superior to knives made in other countries, then why don’t they sell better in the overseas market?
Actually American made knives sell VERY WELL in the overseas markets. The main problem is the massive markups that they recieve here. Most American imported knives cost close to 250% of the price that they command on american soil.
For example, a Buck 110 lockback standard edition that costs anywhere between $30-$50 in the US is priced at around $130 in a local shop. And it still sells.
7) Do Germans care as much about where the knife comes from? What about the British, Fins, Dutch, Brazillians, etc. What do you people from other lands think of American made knives compared to those made elsewhere? Better, worse, or about the same?
We do not. Our prime concern is whether the knife is ANY GOOD. Geographical origin of the knife is not important. Maybe the way the company is run, or their buisiness practises or other factors like that. But in general the place where the knife is produced plays very little role in the knife buying decisions of most people I know in the EU.
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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on
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Thanks for the input Alexander. I'd love to hear other opinions from around the World. I'd also like to hear from people who prefer to buy American. I think we're all grown up enough to respect all sides of a debate.
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Permalink Reply by Ricky L McConnell on
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I recently bought a SOG knife, and it is made in Taiwan . It is very good quality, and is very sharp. I would definitely buy another one from there.
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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on
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I do try to buy from smaller makers within the US but I buy many from other countries also.
Having spent time at some of the US factories, I see the people working there and pray their company will survive within the knife community and they will retain their jobs, maybe even add a few more. It is kind of personal for me, it is about the US jobs that are in place and the possibilities of more.
While it is my first choice, it is not my only choice and without quality I would not buy their products, regardless.
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Permalink Reply by Andy Moon on
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It's not necessarily about the actual knife, it is patriotism and protectionism; supporting America.
Yes I am aware of all of the things you point out. I don't, however, see a lot of knives made in the USA using lower cost Chinese steels. I am aware that Kai is an overseas company, but I am also aware that they have a physical plant in the USA. Kai employs hundreds of Americans and sends millions of dollars home in paychecks. They also have American designers that work in America and produce knives from high end steels with innovative designs.
If I can buy something of equal quality that is made in the USA, I will do so even if it costs me more money (to a point). I don't limit this to my knives. When I remodeled my kitchen, I insisted that anything that could be US source would be US sourced. Again, this is done in support of my country and my fellow countryman. I do not do this in the thought that foreign products are intrinsically of lesser quality.
Your question about why American knives don't sell ovsease (#6) - So if Rolls Royce automobiles are better than Chevrolet automobiles, why doesn't everyone in the USA drive one? USA knives are much more expensive in many countries.
Maybe the idea that Chinese made stuff is "crap" is because so much of the products people have had experience with really is of lower quality. Take, for instance, the Smith and Wesson branded knives that hang in O'Reillys. Tell me those are great knives. The fact that someone wanted them made in China tells me that they wanted to cut the costs to the bone, and then I could realistically expect that the same person would also cut corners on the quality of materials and craftsmanship.
Can 'ya get a great knife that was made in China ? Certainly - I have a couple of Kershaw knives that were produced in China and they are very good knives with good quality materials and decent blade steel. Theses knives were not made overseas to maximize quality, however, they were made there to minimize costs.
I love Victorinox and some of the other non-USA brands, and buy them because they are good products without regard for the country of source. I have bought many offshore produced knives, and my experience is that a good deal of those knives do not stand up to the quality of the USA made knives that I own and have experience owning.
best
mqqn
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Permalink Reply by Derek Wells on
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Andy Moon - " USA knives are much more expensive in many countries."
Yep you are correct Andy I can verify that (Unfortunately) In the 80's & 90's Here in Australia we used to see Schrade USA Buck USA and Puma knives out of Germany all at reasonable prices. Now the same brands pop up but of course mostly made in China or Taiwan and guess what the prices don't reflect the country of origin.
As for stuff like Queen or GEC there are some - a very few - available here but at about twice the US price. (I cannot blame the Aussie importers they have to make a profit and I don't begrudge that)
The only recourse then for someone like me is to deal directly with on-line dealers in the US 'most' of whom are genuine but I had a raw deal with one recently who posted photos of a beautiful Knife for sale on-line then sent me a dud factory second. (Hey he did offer a refund but in the full knowledge that my posting it back from the other side of the world was cost prohibitive and unpractical)
There are no production knife manufactures in Australia - some custom makers pump out a line of semi custom fixed blades but the only folders are full on custom jobs, way out of my league.
My preference would be to support the Queen Cutlery and GEC's out of the USA - but "It ain't easy!
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I am all for American buying American product but I would argue if you are buying American simply to support America it makes little or no sense.
If I am an American company I better be earning every dollar I make. And guess what I better learn how to compete on the world stage as well. If I am going to be the best or if I am going to offer an attractive and well made product I expect to be able to compete and have lots of people buy my products(knives).
If you can't compete, don't have the will to survive and work hard to earn every dollar you have no business being in business. Its that simple. Get over it! The competition is tough and the stakes are high. Compete for the consumer $ or go out of business.
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Permalink Reply by John Bamford on
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I like Queen and GEC knives because they are good knives for the price and I like traditional pocketknives. If knives of the same quality were still made in Sheffield then I would buy them but only to save on import taxes and postage. I don't believe in buying a product just because it is made in the UK , we turned out a lot of junk at times and that is why most of our auto industry has gone. They didn't go broke because people wanted to buy Japanese but because Japan ,in the 70s started producing a better product. At the moment to my mind the US is making pocket knives at a price that I can afford and in a style that I wish to own , or at least GEC and Queen are, there maybe others that I haven't tried yet. As long as this is the case then I will continue to spend my hard earned cash in the States.
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Andy Roy put this in another place on iKC. I brought it here because it says much better what I was trying to convey.
I still agree with Hanner...bring your A game for quality or regardless of where you are made...I dont want to spend the $.
Comment by Andrew Roy 13 minutes ago
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And he makes a great case for custom knives. Careful cost consideration, constant marketing, awareness of your market and a careful watch on quality. Sure sounds like competition to me!
You can not tell me most knife production companies regardless of their location in the world, other custom makers regardless of their location in the world don't feel basically the same way. Yes, understand you may have various degrees of commitment. But I don't argue that.
Want to be a success at knife making...be passionate about quality, be aware of your market and do your best to compete. Wish I had a dollar for every knife company and custom maker who started out with good intentions and somewhere along the way lost thier passion and direction, never to be heard from again.
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I like to think what you are paying for when you buy a handmade knife is the ability of the maker to support himself with his hands.
Think of the renaissance of craftsmanship that is going on in America with knives, woodworking, pen turning, etc. Its an amazing thing to see. If you've ever seen a Bruce Bump knife, then you know that there truly are Master Craftsmen in the here and now.
While I am no master and no Bruce Bump, I have been able to support myself and my family since a layoff on May 1 2009 with full time knifemaking. Since then my company has grown, we've moved into a facility seperate from my home, and I now employ 7 folks (including me) at Fiddleback Forge.
What does that require? It requires constant revenue, and the prices have to produce profits. Period. What I try to do is keep the prices as low as I can so that I can sell to the user market which is bigger. That means that every time I add a cost, I have to add knives to the week to offset it/him/her. When I stared full time work, I made 6 knives a week. Then jumped to ten or 12, then hired folks and nowadays we make 42 knives a week.
Then you have to be able to sell them. This is where I got lucky. I didn't know this back when I was an engineer, but I am very good at marketing and branding. My knives aren't master works, they are good outdoor tools, but when it comes to branding and marketing, I'm a fish in water.
Steel types draw certain folks and repel certain folks. I, personally don't like stainless steels. Soulless and lifeless and sterile even after years of use. I also don't like damascus steels because of cold shuts and not knowing what the edge is comprised of. I prefer good old homogenous 01 steel. Easiest steel to sharpen and takes a great edge. Some folks have a prejudice against 440C (undeserved, but true). Some folks don't ever want rust. I don't think its the steel that drives the price though. I think folks are drawn to what they are comfortable using and sharpeining.
IMO, what you are paying for is keeping Americans working with their hands. Sure, you can always go get a Mora knife and by God it does everything any of mine will do and cost $295 less. That extra $ isn't wasted though. It keeps 7 of us working with our hands, and helps us donate funds to help 3 different kids with horrible medical issues pay their medical bills. IMO, its money well spent, but then again, I'm kinda biased.