Replies to This Discussion

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Scott King on October 25, 2009 at 20:23

I know nothing about GEC ebay knives, per se, but as an auctioneer and one who deals with real estate (and supply and demand on a daily basis)- what you describe is what happens with the supply/demand equation is out of wack, or a situation where these sellers aren't "real sellers" -defined as one who is willing to sell at today's prices- whether there is a profit or not, and therefore these "Buy it Now" sellers must, in order to achieve the profit margin they want/need have to artificially support the price via a false floor (ie, a Buy it Now price or min. bid).

Price support like this is a short term "fix" cause if the supply/demand equation is in fact out of wack, eventually lower demand at a certain price point will cause loses and then impact the manufacturer- causing them to slow or decrease production, thereby possibly resulting in layoffs or plant shut downs- in theory. All a function of how long the supply exceeds demand.

This is exactly what is happening in real estate today. What is going to happen is the "forced" sales will set the comps the non-forced sellers will have to sell at, if they are really sellers today, otherwise, if they have holding power these sellers will pull off the market.

Until the supply is absorbed- values fall- at least in real estate in does.

Permalink Reply by Lloyd Shoemaker on October 25, 2009 at 20:51

Mark, From what I've seen of these knives right now on ebay, the buy it now's are mostly from two sellers that are businesses notorious on ebay for either buy it now or really high reserve prices. My take on the absence of regular auction listings is that most of GEC's knives are being bought up and put away in collections. They are , in my mind, the best of the best being made right now. There are some GEC dealers that are very good to deal with online and at knife shows. I've got alot of them, but all my knives are for sale.

Permalink Reply by mark r. pederson on October 26, 2009 at 7:51

Wow Scott that is a real ear full. I have learned to respect your opinion and advise, therefor I need to reflex on what you said. as always, thank you.

Permalink Reply by Greg Holmes on October 26, 2009 at 22:07

Ebay is a mere shadow of what it was just 2 years ago. I've done over 5000 Ebay transactions and was really active in listing items (very few GEC's however) until the past year. Their sales policies, pricing, etc took all of the fun out of selling there. I had a number of Bark River knives with "Antique Ivory Micarta" handles listed that Ebay took down because I used the word "Ivory" in the description. Many, many phone calls later I simply gave up. A year ago you had the option of using basically any legal means of payment. Now (to protect the buyer???) you have to go through PayPal. A late of buyers don't care to have anything to do with PayPal. The feedback changes they instituted favoring the buyer turned a lot of sellers off.

As a result, the bidding activity dropped and the listing activity did as well. Currently, Ebay makes it most attractive to the seller to use fixed price listings allowing for long listing periods with very low listing fees. They get you on the backend with their final value fees. At last check, I figured it cost me close to 10-12% of the selling price to complete a sale.

Personally, Ive seen my GEC sales increase this year over last. in spite of the economy. In my store, the 2006 and 2007 knives are being picked up by collectors resulting in fewer of them being available. I've also seen a steady increase in new customers in the last 6-9 months.I don't think the collector market for the GEC's is mature enough to have really 'pushed the secondary market much yet. BUT, I've increased my inventory to almost 600 knives anticipating the popularity of the GEC's to continue to expand particularly once this economy picks up. And by the way, the overseas sales of GEC's has been good for me with our dollar currently in the tank.

Hang tight, I'm still betting the really good times are yet to come!!!

Permalink Reply by Mike Latham on October 27, 2009 at 7:16

Mark,

GEC knives are not the least expensive knife on the market right now. Well worth the money, but not cheap. And it is just too soon for the big GEC collectors to be passing collections on to heirs that will liquidate them. Thus, most GEC knives on eBay are from current GEC distributors. Although there are a couple of ex-distributors selling now; most are not willing to take the loss on them by selling on eBay during this economy. They still just do not have the following to guarantee at least a break-even on eBay.

I am not sure this will change for some time. One of my possible views on the economy is a little more drastic; but I see no reason for any significant improvement over the long term. As a country, this thing has gotten ridiculous. Just look at what a vehicle cost in 1995; and today. A gallon of milk? A house? What is the reason for the increase; are we any better off than in 1995 as far as wages, exports, energy costs?

But, the good news is that either way knives win. If the economy improves and expendable income increases, the collector market will take back off and there will be more competition bidding on eBay. If the economy gets worse, tangible items will increase in value. And although a collectible knife may lose a big part of its value, it will still be worth more than printed money.

But in this current economy we have already seen a drastic drop in the more simple collector (which I probably qualify). Case / Boker / Hen&Rooster knife sales have fell through the floor; and caused several layoffs and cutbacks at the factory. I suspect this is because these brands have a younger core collector market. I see no improvement on the horizon yet. If this carries over into the more sophisticated collector market over time, the other brands will start to suffer. The sophisticated collector has a little more funding and possibly even continues to utilize monthly retirement payments in many cases. But eventually if we do not move out of this stagnant period, those collectors will take pause as well.

Now this is a little off the wall, and may not even answer the question. But I woke up this morning worrying about this country. God Bless.

Mike Latham
CollectorKnives.Net

Permalink Reply by Greg Holmes on October 29, 2009 at 15:56

Mark, if you'd like to see a good example of what I'm referring to regarding Ebay becoming more & more unfriendly to sellers, check out this Ebay GEC listing and take time to read down through: "Note to Ebay Screeners". For me, it was exactly this kind of thing that discouraged me from continuing to use EBay as an outlet for collectibles. Their keyword screening process is horrible and attempting to use logic and reason with Ebay's 'monitors' is an excercise in futility. It's unfortunate, but I think there's a gaping hole developing that is just begging for some enterprising individual/group to fill.

Permalink Reply by mark r. pederson on October 30, 2009 at 19:04

Hello Greg, Yes I saw that listing. You are correct in what you are saying, I would not be surprised if Ebay stops knife listing someday. That gapping hole thing, I have had the same thought. I have been using the members stores on AAPK lately,I like it alot. Good Luck.

Permalink Reply by Frank Evans on October 30, 2009 at 19:43

Mar
I may have credited you posting in error to someone eles. Please check my recent BLog : All the Knives on ebay... yeBay is not a true auction site anymore. It's a Amazon.com for all it's eBay stores. Except for the "vintage" market where the listing sellers know they are best served allowing the market to show itself and $. I watched a 2002 Stockman Halloween SFO (the 1st Case offered) have a minimum bid of $150, at the time I caught it, the market had surpassed the seller's low to $480 with double digit bidders in line to run at the last few minutes. That is what they are suppose to be. The Vintage sellers bid out listing at a ratio of over 80% at any time I check. The Case subsection, is the oposit with nearly 75% BuyNow and on a good night 25% bid. And that figure is driven largely by Digital Freaks who run about 200 listings a day through true full big. Deadwood Knives also helps support that with true biding on about 60 listings a night. Deadwood and DF do "Buy Now" the higher end knives for thier own protection. But how does all this boil down. It's a odd market with some really compeditive internet retailers to chose from. I will highlight several. I will also do some market comparables for specific brand, styles etc. eBay is not the do all end all for our selling and buying... We have a great forum here to put out "What -to-buy" notices and "Want to sell trade" as well.

Permalink Reply by Frank Evans on October 30, 2009 at 20:01

Well Stated Mike! You have a great presence in the market. And you have a great GEC line. I know, I have shopped with you in the last weeks for GEC products. What we need are more folks like you, TSA, GPKnives, Shepherd Hills and others to remain compedative and continue to offer an inventory that's there, the price is known and let the new knive collector know it's not eBay only. You and others are there, you have made the investment in the inventory, service, and support to better fill thier needs than the role of the dice at eBay. Not to say that Deadwood and Digital Freaks, Red Hill and other do not offer service behind the sale but though eBay, it is just not like placeing that order with you and knowing it will be serviced proptly. I bought a Case 5347DAM from Shepherd Hills this week. The spey blade was DOA, they did not have another and I found one. There was no problem. I just have to return one while the other is on it's way. You do not get that eBaying.


Keep it up and May God Bless!

Frank

Permalink Reply by Morrie Mayfield on December 24, 2009 at 14:07

Hey Everyone,
There is a GEC Melon Tester on Ebay and it is up for Bid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morrie

Permalink Reply by Morrie Mayfield on December 27, 2009 at 11:26

Hi,
I wish you the GREATEST good luck!!!!!!!!
Let me know what happens.
Morrie