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"Click" instead of "Bang", what next?

I'm sure most all of us who do much shooting have heard a "Click" instead of "Bang" at one time or another. For some reason a round has failed to fire when we pulled the trigger. The results of this can be deadly or just a minor nuisance depending on why we fired. Obviously the most serious consequences would be if this happened during a self defense situation. This is one of the reasons that it is often recommended to use only original factory fresh loadings for self defense. Even factory reloads should not be used.

I saw a perfect example of why that is true just this last Saturday. I was doing some plinking and practice with some friends of mine. One of my buddies was firing his .40 S & W using factory reloads. On about his sixth shot, the entire base of the cartridge case separated and blew out the ejection port of his pistol leaving the case neck stuck in the chamber completely disabling the gun.

So if we hear "Click", what do we do next? If it is a self defense situation it is imperative to return the gun to operational status as quickly as possible. Many recommend in all circumstances where the gun fails to fire to immediately do a Tap, Rack,Bang (TRB). In this procedure the magazine is tapped to make sure it is seated properly, the slide is racked to rechamber another round, and the trigger is then pulled to fire the gun again.

With most if not all striker fired guns, such as Glock, this is necessary to make the weapon fire. These pistols are not true double action weapons. The cycling of the slide partially cocks the striker. Pulling the trigger then finishes cocking the striker and releases it to fire the gun. If the trigger is pulled again without racking the slide, nothing will happen.

I personally feel there is an exception to doing an immediate TRB. I have a Ruger P89 and a Ruger P97. These are both true double action weapons. Just like a double action revolver, every time you pull the trigger, the hammer will rise and fall. If one of these goes Click, I can instantaneously pull the trigger again. In my experience I have found that on the rare occasions that a round fails to fire, a second pull of the trigger will often fire the round.

Some say that that second pull of the trigger wastes too much time. I disagree. That second pull of the trigger would be almost instantaneous with the first, just a fraction of a second. And if you routinely do double taps, you will most likely have pulled the trigger again before you even realize it didn't fire the first time. And if it doesn't fire the second time, then you can do a TRB. But it has to be a true double action weapon for the second pull of the trigger to work. Usually these guns will have a hammer.

If you are just plinking or target shooting and you get a failure to fire, you should not do an immediate TRB. You may only have a hang fire. This is where the gun fires but only after a short delay. If you hear Click, you should keep the weapon pointed safely down range for at least 30 seconds. Maybe it was a weak primer or contaminated or deteriorated powder. At any rate you would not want the gun to fire after you holstered it or pointed it in some other direction.

There are other ways that a gun can malfunction. A couple of these are a jam and a squib load. Both of these will be addressed in a later discussion.

For now I would like to hear comments and ideas on a failure to fire when a gun has gone into battery and the firing pin falls and all we hear is "Click". I would like to hear from those who both agree and disagree with what I have said. Any other ideas are appreciated.

5 members like this

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on November 5, 2013 at 21:18

Well I sure do agree on the second pull of the trigger before anything else. I almost do that automatically because many times I might just hear that click and a second pull does fire. I don't know if its the quality of the ammo or a weak gun(my 22 pistol as example) but sometimes it is what required.

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on November 5, 2013 at 21:27

Sometimes the primer in a centerfire cartridge does not get fully seated in the primer pocket. In those cases the first pull of the trigger usually seats the primer and the second will fire it.

Permalink Reply by Andy Moon on November 7, 2013 at 6:23

The basis for this kind of malfunction clearing training is to keep you in the fight. If you are in a fight, your training is designed to keep your heart rate lower and to get your muscle memory trained as you will have lost much of your fine motor skills due to your adrenaline hit.

If you feel comfortable enough to practice practice practice that "repull" of the trigger with your particular piece, that is up to you.

Since not all (few in fact) auto-loading pistols have the capability that your particular piece does, I prefer the tap-rack-fire drill, as this will work with both types of pistol that you may find yourself with in the field.

As to the lost milliseconds, if you are in a firefight, it is not a fight you can lose and every millisecond counts.

best

mqqn

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on November 7, 2013 at 7:08

Agree or disagree with this - whatever - BUT: you just don't get that scenario with a Glock.

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on November 7, 2013 at 11:49

Andy, thanks for posting. I appreciate the input. This is an important subject for anyone who carries a semi auto. I basically agree with everything you said. This is actually a moot point for my EDC's. I carry two, a S&W .38 snub and a Ruger LCP. Of course with the revolver all you can do is pull the trigger again. And the LCP does not have restrike capability so the tap, rack, bang is the only course of action with it.

I don't consider myself an expert. I have used guns most of my life. But my only formal training was when I joined the Lexington, KY police force. That was over 40 years ago and we used revolvers back then. (One thing they emphasized was counting your shots. They did not want us clicking on already fired chambers.) I have not been a police officer for 35 years now.

I often do have my Ruger 9 mm or .45 in my vehicle. (Still have the other two on my person.) To me it is worth the added milliseconds to the probably seconds it will take to tap the magazine, rack the slide, reacquire a sight picture, and pull the trigger again for the chance that round will fire on the second try. And with double tapping, I am probably going to pull the trigger the second time before I realize it didn't fire the first time.

Andy, I would like your opinion on hang fires. Have you ever had one with a cartridge? I never have but have had two with my muzzleloader. Do you take those in to consideration when practicing?

Andy Moon said:

The basis for this kind of malfunction clearing training is to keep you in the fight. If you are in a fight, your training is designed to keep your heart rate lower and to get your muscle memory trained as you will have lost much of your fine motor skills due to your adrenaline hit.

If you feel comfortable enough to practice practice practice that "repull" of the trigger with your particular piece, that is up to you.

Since not all (few in fact) auto-loading pistols have the capability that your particular piece does, I prefer the tap-rack-fire drill, as this will work with both types of pistol that you may find yourself with in the field.

As to the lost milliseconds, if you are in a firefight, it is not a fight you can lose and every millisecond counts.

best

mqqn

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on November 7, 2013 at 11:55

Ken, I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that a Glock will never go click instead of bang? What about a dud cartridge? Around here somewhere I have a .38 special cartridge with the primer seated backwards. I need to try to find it and post a pic.

Ken Spielvogel said:

Agree or disagree with this - whatever - BUT: you just don't get that scenario with a Glock.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on November 7, 2013 at 18:11

Charles, I am sure I am just lucky I guess, but I have never had a dud cartridge in a Glock 9mm or .45. I have in .22. I have fired my Glock's in tactical training and range shooting a lot, without one single mis-fire.

You guessed it - I am just sold on a Glock.

Permalink Reply by Andy Moon on November 7, 2013 at 18:27

Hey Charles -

I highlighted something in your comment below. If you are in a firefight, you will not be using sight-focused aiming, you will use target-focused aiming. This is proven more effective in high-stress situations and stressed in LE Survival training that I am familiar with. People surprise themselves with just how accurate they can be using target-focused shooting, with all important training and practice practice practice, of course.

Any malfunction is met with a tap-rack-fire algorithm, including a hang fire, as you are trained to bring the gun to the workstation position and start the algorithm immediately upon malfunction. We train for double-feeds and stove-pipes, but the response is the same. If you are in the workstation position and the hanging round fires, then you are still safe and can get back in the fight. You cannot "wait for a safe time" to clear the gun in a firefight, you have to stay in the fight.

You would have a different response if you were at the range during practice, and in that condition we teach to wait 30 seconds, and then place the firearm on the bench, keeping it pointing downrange and alert an instructor to assist in clearing the piece. The instructor should perform the clearing from the workstation position.

Good question.

best

mqqn

Charles Sample said:

Andy, thanks for posting. I appreciate the input. This is an important subject for anyone who carries a semi auto. I basically agree with everything you said. <snip>

To me it is worth the added milliseconds to the probably seconds it will take to tap the magazine, rack the slide, reacquire a sight picture, and pull the trigger again for the chance that round will fire on the second try. And with double tapping, I am probably going to pull the trigger the second time before I realize it didn't fire the first time.

Andy, I would like your opinion on hang fires. Have you ever had one with a cartridge? I never have but have had two with my muzzleloader. Do you take those in to consideration when practicing?

Permalink Reply by Andy Moon on November 7, 2013 at 18:34

Hi Ken - Maybe you misunderstood - the subject was a cartridge malfunction, not a malfunction with the gun.

I agree that Glocks are very reliable.

best

mqqn

Ken Spielvogel said:

Agree or disagree with this - whatever - BUT: you just don't get that scenario with a Glock.

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on November 7, 2013 at 18:52

Sorry, I guess I did mis-understand. I thought weak firing pins were involved also. We trained for mis-feeds but I have never had one in a Glock. Yes, I guess I am off topic - again, sorry.

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on November 7, 2013 at 21:41

Ken, you are not off topic. A click instead of a bang could very well be caused by a weak firing pin. This is exactly what I hoped for, a discussion of the various aspects of the subject. I like hearing and discussing others opinions I am definitely not the last word on the subject. I am in the minority on pulling the trigger the second time in the case of a misfire.

I think ultimately one has to make a decision that he is comfortable with and practice, practice, practice. Of course if the weapon used has no restrike capability, then there is only one choice. My police training with revolvers probably still pushes me toward pulling the trigger a second time. I am a pretty old dog and they say it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. In the middle of a self defense situation is definitely not the time to debate whether to pull the trigger again or TRB!

Ken, another question. Do you practice double tap? If you had a misfire on the first pull during double tapping, do you think you would realize it in time to stop yourself from pulling the trigger the second time?

Ken Spielvogel said:

Sorry, I guess I did mis-understand. I thought weak firing pins were involved also. We trained for mis-feeds but I have never had one in a Glock. Yes, I guess I am off topic - again, sorry.

Permalink Reply by Andy Moon on November 8, 2013 at 20:02

I am pretty sold on glock as well! The only malfunctions I have had were after hundreds of rounds of training at the range, dropping the mags in the dirt and having the springs in the mags get fouled with dirt. When I say hundreds of rounds, I mean it.

I would say my 23 glock is the most reliable piece I have owned.

And nope, you are not off topic IMO - a good discussion!

best

mqqn

Ken Spielvogel said:

Charles, I am sure I am just lucky I guess, but I have never had a dud cartridge in a Glock 9mm or .45. I have in .22. I have fired my Glock's in tactical training and range shooting a lot, without one single mis-fire.

You guessed it - I am just sold on a Glock.

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