Replies to This Discussion

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on April 8, 2015 at 11:38

Syd, I pretty much agree with you on the quality of Chinese knives.  One of the brands I focus on in my collecting is Rough Rider.  So far every RR knife I have is a quality knife, especially for the money.

Another knife I just got is a Stone River brand trapper made in China.  It was a premium for donating to the NRA ILA.  It is a quality knife.  The blades are centered, no wiggle or wobble.  Looking at and handling the knife makes me wonder if it might have been made in the RR factory.

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on April 8, 2015 at 14:16

Thanks for the info guys, I love the historical stuff especially, thanks for that. It seem to me that Pride, Rough Rider, and Frost all come out of the same factory, whether they are Frost brands or not. I see that familiar bolster slot on the Stone River knife shown above, so it is probably out of that same factory too. Having been in the musical instrument business, and as an avid life-long radio control modeler I have become familiar with Chinese manufacturing, (by default, it's in every industry now). Both of those industries, (along with the knife business), have been literally taken over by Chinese manufacturing, and over the years the quality of their products has grown by leaps and bounds. The musical instrument business has also seen some of the European lateral connection with Chinese manufacturing, such as the "German Steel" knives assembled in China. Many musical electronics items are designed in Germany, then manufactured in China in German-owned factories, Behringer being an obvious example of that. They actually partnered with the Chinese government and built an entire factory city in China called "Behringer City". My point is that the quality I see out of China has increased over time, and that they notice and respond to customers wants & needs by increasing relative quality, something I personally witnessed with generations of musical electronics coming out of China which increased in quality with each generation. I see that happening now with knives. I guess you could say that Jim Frost is an American version of Germany's Uli Behringer, who was one of the first European industrialists to produce much, or ALL of their product(s) in China, (and being very successful at it). For years Chinese products were looked down on and rejected by many in the music industry for years, (I include myself in that group), but gradually that has changed. Today there are high quality musical instruments coming out of China, some of them even being considered collectible in a world once dominated by US products. The fact that we can get such high quality, affordable knives is great for those of us who love a bargain, but it says something else entirely about the state of affairs of US manufacturing. What some of the US-only purists don't take into account is the fact that nearly EVERYTHING is either now made in China, or at the very least many components of US-made products come from there as well. The fact is Chinese manufacturing is here to stay, whether we like it or not; it is indeed a different world than the one I (we) grew up in. I'll keep buying US-made knives, (when I can afford them), but I will also take advantage of the low prices offered by Chinese manufacturing. I guess if you can't fight 'em, join 'em!

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 8, 2015 at 15:02

Sid and others, it is my understanding, the bulk of the Global production of knives coming out of China are indeed made by one of six factories owned by Guangdong Victory Industrial Ltd located in Yangjiang, China.  The different American companies contract with Guangdong, with many supplying their own raw steel and handle materials for the production.  One day a factory may be pumping out Taylor Brands and the next day it will be turning out Frost, or SMKW house brands.  Some factories work on modern styles while others focus on Traditional Patterns.

The only real difference is the quality control standards set by the various companies.  Some of the difference you will notice is blade thickness, bones dyes and over all finish. All of this is dependent on the American Company and what they deem as sufficient.

This also means you will have Rough Riders and some of the higher end Frost knives being made with 440A Stainless Steel blades while many of the Schrades, Klaas, Kissing Cranes, and the lower end Frost knives being made with 400 Series (can you say 420J2) Stainless Steel!  This will also explain why the heat treat on the so called 440C Stainless on many Smith & Wessons and Sarge knives gives a you steel that is worse than that on many 440A Steel Warriors!

So while the knives are all being contracted to the same factories, the quality between brands and even within brands of the same over arching company are not allways as good!  This is why an SMKW Colt is slightly better than a SMKW Rough Rider made in the same factory with the same steel!  This alos explains why those Frost Eagle Eye Tacticals can be sold for so dirt cheap (and you still feel ripped off)  but other Frost Tacticals rival knives made by CRKT and Kershaw but at half the cost!

If it has China on the blade it is probably churned out by Guangdong

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on April 8, 2015 at 15:30

More history, thanks, I love it! Thanks for sharing that knowledge with us, with so many brands out there it's hard to know who's who!.

Well, who has more centuries of blade-making tradition behind them than China, it's not surprising they are capable of producing quality knives. Funny thing about steel is that it is entirely possible that the steel in my Chinese trapper may have been part of my dad's old Buick at one time. China is THE largest buyer of US scrap metal in the world, and there are container ships full of US scrap crossing the oceans every single day. Your info above helps clarify for me the reasons that some Chinese-made knives carry a higher price point than others. Thanks again for that perspective, knowledge is power.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 8, 2015 at 16:04

Syd said.

More history, thanks, I love it! Thanks for sharing that knowledge with us, with so many brands out there it's hard to know who's who!.

>>

It isn't too hard.  Check out:  A Pocket Guide to Knives located at < http://apg2k.hegewisch.net... Specifically:  Who Owns Who < http://apg2k.hegewisch.net/wow-6.html >

:-)

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on April 8, 2015 at 16:14

Wow, you really do know "who's who", obviously because you literally "wrote the book" on the subject. I guess I asked the right guy for historical info, it's always best to go right to the source. Thanks for your time and for the info, if anybody wants me I'll be reading!

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on April 8, 2015 at 16:46

Amazing, I can barely believe the amount of research you did to produce your pocket guide. I'll be referring to it often I'm sure. If no one has thanked you for doing all that work, and then providing it free for the masses, then I will do so now....Thank you! You have provided me with answers to questions I've had for years, and even answered questions I didn't even know I wanted to ask until reading your guide. Being raised by a machinist I inherited an appreciation for good tools, and after all a knife is a tool, so my "collecting" revolves around obtaining good tools, no matter their origin. Like I said in an earlier post; "knowledge is power", and you have given power to all of us by sharing your knowledge. Thanks again Tobias, glad I happened to run into you.

Permalink Reply by Max McGruder on April 8, 2015 at 17:17

Syd, Please tell me that "If you can't fight them join them" B.S.I hate that saying! That's I give up!!

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 8, 2015 at 17:42

Replies to the Stockman Discussion over took those of the Trapper discussion and the Trapper discussion was started first!  I figure its time to post another one of my Trapper hybrids.  This one is a Shrade Buzzsaw Trapper made for the 100th anniversary of the Boy Scouts!

Knife with the top of the commemorative tin

The saw blade.  hence the name Buzzsaw Trapper. The knife came with a nice leather sheath.

The saw also does a great job.  As good as that on Victorinox Swiss Army Knives, at least when new.   The knife also has  some great tweezers and steel toothpick with brass pommel.  Note the saw blade lock in place with the aid a brass liner lock.

Brass liners, orange buzz saw bone scales. Prass pins and "400 series" stainless steel blades make this a bol looking barehead trapper.  I received it as a birthday present which makes it even that more special!  It is a solid well built knife.  The only problem I have with it is the steel toothpick. That puppy is bear to pull out of the handle!

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 8, 2015 at 18:08

My pleasure Syd. Glad you found it useful.

Syd Carr said:

Amazing, I can barely believe the amount of research you did to produce your pocket guide. I'll be referring to it often I'm sure. If no one has thanked you for doing all that work, and then providing it free for the masses, then I will do so now....Thank you! You have provided me with answers to questions I've had for years, and even answered questions I didn't even know I wanted to ask until reading your guide. Being raised by a machinist I inherited an appreciation for good tools, and after all a knife is a tool, so my "collecting" revolves around obtaining good tools, no matter their origin. Like I said in an earlier post; "knowledge is power", and you have given power to all of us by sharing your knowledge. Thanks again Tobias, glad I happened to run into you.

Permalink Reply by Syd Carr on April 8, 2015 at 18:14

Sorry Max, no intention to disturb any sensibilities here. Just my way of saying that Chinese manufacturing is here, cannot be avoided for the most part, and like many other things in life it just "is what it is", (a saying my daughter says should go on my tombstone I say it so much). Grousing about it doesn't make it go away, (Chinese manufacturing that is), and it's not a matter of giving up on anything, it's a matter of acceptance of the reality of it. Do you see Chinese manufacturing as ever going away or disappearing from our "modern" world? I don't, may as well embrace it, (IMHO), and realize that they didn't steal those jobs from us, they were handed those jobs by US corporations on a silver platter so they could make an extra buck or two per unit. Tobias expressed some reasons why US knife manufacturing has declined so much in the last few decades in his pocket guide, and those are some of the same reasons other US manufacturing jobs have gone offshore. Where will it all end? Dunno, but I'm taking the opportunity to get some relatively high quality knives at a bargain price while I can.

I'll try to NOT use that expression anymore Max, and will try to keep the knives themselves as the topic of discussion.

BTW: Tobias, I know two different Scout Masters who would love a knife like that, I'll send them a copy of your photos.

Max McGruder said:

Syd, Please tell me that "If you can't fight them join them" B.S.I hate that saying! That's I give up!!

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 8, 2015 at 18:36

Hi guys.  I'd also like to keep these threads pattern focused.  But I also know the passion of China vs. USA made knives among are American Collectors so I know this topic appears everywhere knives are discussed.  Believe me when I say I'm not trying to shut down a discussion or trying to moderate free thought or expression of opinions. It is neither my place to do it or my wish to do it.  However, there are several excellent threads that focus precisely on the topic of China vs. USA and  everyone's opinion would be valued more in these threads:  Please see:

http://iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/knives-made-in-asia-especia...

or. 

http://iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/made-in-china?commentId=318...

Both have pro and con thoughts on the topic and neither are hostile to either opinion.

Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to help folks find a better place to discuss  a topic that is near and dear to their heart.

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