Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on March 24, 2017 at 21:53

Dale,

It sure is looking good!  Thanks for the heads up on the diamond stone.  I like johns idea and it may well help keep a good stone flat

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on March 31, 2017 at 0:24

I've decided to go with a hidden tang design,

Only time will tell if I've made the correct choice.

I can certainly attest .. this D2 is tempered as hard as Jantz stated,

To insure the temper remained unaffected .. It was a slow & arduous process.

Bathed in a continuous bath of coolant.

I'll not be using the remaining pin hole in the tang.

I'll be drilling a more centrally located pin hole once the scales are firrnly epoxied in place.

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The intent tomorrow will be documenting the fabrication of the very simple mosaic pin for this,

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Enjoy

D ale

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on March 31, 2017 at 19:52

It is looking good and I cannot wait to see the mosaic pin process.  I am extremely interested in this as the cost of buying them can be insane!

Permalink Reply by John Bamford on April 1, 2017 at 9:12

I would bet it was a job to drill through D2 Dale , that stuff is kind of tough !

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 14, 2017 at 19:56

Finally got some time to get back on this project. I decided to turn this into a hidden tang design. I did leave one hole in the tang & it will be implemented to “internally “ pin the scales to the tang.

I used a pin vise and an appropriate size drill bit to manually & precisely as possible drill a hole about 0.063” (1/16”) deep into each scale.

The tang thickness is 0.125” (1/8”) Add another 0.063” (1/16”) into both scales & I’ll need an overall length of 0.250” (1/4”) for the internal pin. Note: one of the holes in the scale material got drilled a bit deeper than the intended 0.063” (1/16”) ..SO0o.. I found the pin dimension of 0.254 to fit up just fine.

I machined a cavity for the hidden tang into each scale to a depth of half the thickness of the tang .. 0.063” (1/16”). I actually machined the cavities a little deeper .. 0.070” .. to allow for some tolerances.

The hidden tang will be internally pinned & sandwiched between the 2 pieces of Osage Orange wooden scales to form the handle.

I’ll add an ample quantity of 2-part epoxy .. line everything up properly .. secure it in a vise ..&.. allow it to cure overnight.

I will also add a very simple mosaic pin matching that in the bolster about halfway along the length of the handle. There will be one small difference with this pin .. from that in the bolster. I will be using Osage Orange wood dust to dye the 2-part epoxy. This should cause the very center of this pin to have a brownish tinge ..as opposed to the black in the center of the pin in the bolster.

This pin will also go through the tang ..but.. will be visible from the outside. Once the epoxy is fully cured .. I will drill a hole for the final pin ..&.. epoxy it in place.

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Then, I can begin forming the final handle shape.

There’s still a ways to go ..but.. I am getting there !!!

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Enjoy

D ale

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 21, 2017 at 8:55

It’s beginning to take the shape recognizable as a knife. The scales have been epoxied in place & forming of the handle has begun.

I used a 30MM (1.181”) dia cutter to form the first finger groove & the initial shaping of the bolster.

I used a 25mm (0.984”) dia cutter to begin forming the bolster @ the spine edge of the knife. I used a standard end mill to begin removing the excess Osage Orange wood that I started with. I’ve always found it easier to remove excess material as opposed to adding material when I remove too much. SO0o .. I always start out with an excess of scale material and work down from there.

It is not so evident given the wonderful lighting I have when taking these pics ..however.. the brass-copper-brass arrangement of the simple mosaic pins & the washers between the handle & the micarta bolster do go well with the orange-ish brown of the wood.

It’s beginning to take shape & becoming recognizable as a knife.

I’m happy.

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Enjoy

D ale

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 21, 2017 at 19:05

My goodness, it certainly is becoming recognizable! Click on the pic and blow it up, it is looking FINE!

Permalink Reply by Michael Squier on April 25, 2017 at 8:52

looking good. I like the look of the octagonal grip, wil it stay that way or are you going to round it off? 

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2017 at 20:32

Michael .. I too like the octagonal shape. Long term .. likely just the bolster / guard ..&.. the butt / pommel will retain the octagonal shape. For comfort during extended use ..say, dressing out a deer.. I believe a more rounded shape will provide less hand fatigue. And .. it truly just feels better in the hand.

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As you stated .. I also like the octagonal shape. And again .. I'll likely retain it for the bolster & pommel.

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Thanks for your comment, Michael. And .. thanks much for following the discussion.

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Enjoy

D ale

Michael Squier said:

looking good. I like the look of the octagonal grip, wil it stay that way or are you going to round it off? 

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2017 at 20:43

A little more progress to report. Note: As I do this strictly as a hobby .. these projects can get strung out over time. And .. generally speaking .. I’ve more than one project happening @ a time. Anyway .. a bit more progress to document.

While there exists an internal hidden pin through the tang & into the wood .. the intent has always been to also have an exposed visible pin going through all .. the wooden scales & the hidden tang of the knife blade. The blade blank is already in a tempered state. JANTZ specs the pattern 33 in D2 (and all their “pattern” series in D2) to be tempered to a 60 +/- 1 HRC. Having performed the machining steps required to get to this point .. I can & do personally attest to the honesty of JANTZ’s specification. It is most certainly tempered to the hardness they state. As such .. a carbide drill bit was required to drill the tang hole.

I used a slow drill speed. Approximately 600 RPM .. I state approximate because it’s simply the reading off of a speed control dial that is NOT calibrated ..but.. it will get you in the ballpark. I also used a slow feed rate. I let the carbide do the work, i.e. I used very little downward force during the drilling process. I chose to drill this hole AFTER the wood scales were in place for a couple reasons. Alignment through all the parts ..ea half of the handle scales & the hidden tang is assured .. as it’s essentially one solid piece at the point of drilling. Also .. it helps minimize the chance of breaking the very hard but “brittle” carbide drill bit. I’ve simply had better luck when the carbide drill bit is encompassed in the wood prior to making contact with the metal ..than.. when I’ve tried to drill just the metal. My experience has been .. when just drilling the metal alone .. the slightest abrupt change in the feed rate is enough to snap the carbide drill bit. Also .. when the bit first makes contact with the steel .. it seems to have a tendency to “catch” as it begins to bite in ..&.. will catch & snap just that quick.

Carbide drill bits are quite brittle & can be far from inexpensive. If sourced stateside ..(MSC, Grainger, drillbitwarehouse).. a single 1/8” carbide drill bit will run $17 ~ $22. I source mine directly from overseas. I’ve broken 2 of them to date. However .. at under $1.oo a piece .. a mistake is a bit more affordable. As far as quality goes .. I’ve proven through actual use .. that the required quality is there i.e. I just drilled an 1/8” hole in tempered D2 steel. And .. this is not the first time I’ve proven their quality through actual use ..again.. by successfully drilling through tempered blade steel.

My point being .. most of us work on a limited budget .. I certainly do. When presenting these projects .. I also attempt to show how they can be performed within a limited budget.

I further formed the handle by cutting some finger notches.

I used a 30mm diamond coated hole saw to accomplish this. I used a faster speed of approximately 1600 RPM for the hole saw. The original design purpose of the hole saw is cutting ceramic or glass. As such .. it had no problem with the Osage Orange wood.

30 mm is 1.18” and of the available sizes I have .. it seemed like the best choice for the finger notches. I’ll also be sanding / radiusing the abrupt edges that are currently present at this stage.

I do not have a (very desirable) 2” X 72” belt sander with a variety of wheel diameters ..nor.. do most of us. I certainly wish I did ..but.. must make do with what I have in its absence. As such .. the diamond coated hole saws provided an affordable method of obtaining the repeatable equal size radiused cut-outs I desired as a starting point for the finger notches. I cut a total of 4 finger notches.

Again .. I will be radiusing the rather abrupt edges that are currently present at this stage of the forming of the handle. However .. this provides a very good starting point for those finger notches. I was able to cut them to uniform depths with exact same radiuses.

I’ll be making the last simple mosaic pin for the handle & epoxying it in place soon. Then ..of course.. further forming of the handle itself.

Thanks for looking.

I’ll be posting more ..when.. there’s further progress to post.

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Enjoy

D ale

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 28, 2017 at 17:37

D ale,

I think the finger hole idea is useful even if there is a 2X72 available.  It is the perfect starting point for those learning to use the grinder to its full potential.  

Using the right carbide tip is also extremely important and getting them at an affordable rate is even better.  Snapping a 17.00 part because the steel is doing what it was heat treated to do is a lesson you don't want to have too often.  Heating the spot with a torch is tricky if you know what your doing, possibly disastrous if you don't.

I like how this is going and the tips and tricks are awesome!

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 29, 2017 at 12:09

Thanks, Jan,

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While I've the advantage of a "Mini Mill" .. most of the steps I've performed on the the mill could be accomplished with a drill press. Albeit, setup time would be a bit lengthier & a bit more involved ..but.. most could be accomplished.

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Re: The 1/8" carbide drill bits. I was "skeptical" at first. But, I took a chance & ordered a set of ten ..figuring.. even @ $8.50 .. I couldn't buy 10 decent quality HSS drill bits for that. Then .. I received them & proceeded to prove their hardness by drilling a couple different hardened blade blanks. I immediately ordered another set of 10. For about what a single 1/8" carbide drill bit would cost me stateside .. I now have 20. I have snapped 2 of them ..but.. wasn't crying the way I would have had I spent $17~22 for just a single bit. Granted, I believe a mild curse or two was elicited ..but.. that was the extent of it.

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... and, the thought of heating the blade enough to drill through it with a HSS drill bit scares the living daylights out of me. JANTZ isn't kidding when they state this blade blank is tempered to a 60 +/- 1 HRC ..&.. I want to keep it that way !!!

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Thanks for the kind words.

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Enjoy

D ale

Jan Carter said:

D ale,

I think the finger hole idea is useful even if there is a 2X72 available.  It is the perfect starting point for those learning to use the grinder to its full potential.  

Using the right carbide tip is also extremely important and getting them at an affordable rate is even better.  Snapping a 17.00 part because the steel is doing what it was heat treated to do is a lesson you don't want to have too often.  Heating the spot with a torch is tricky if you know what your doing, possibly disastrous if you don't.

I like how this is going and the tips and tricks are awesome!

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