Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 30, 2012 at 18:30

Hey thanks for the info Toby

Permalink Reply by Billy Oneale on April 30, 2012 at 22:39

I have seen the catalog, Toby. I may have to get one of them .

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on May 1, 2012 at 5:43

If you don't get the catalog in the mail, you can view it online at:  http://www.smkw.com/flip-catalog/spr2012/

Page 22 is at :  http://www.smkw.com/flip-catalog/spr2012/#/22/

Only the stuff on 22 is USA made.  I think page 23 is a mix of stuff made in China and Taiwan.

Permalink Reply by stephen tungate on May 1, 2012 at 11:49

it is great to see a good knife that has been used.what they was made for....

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on May 7, 2012 at 20:29

My latest Camillus:  Sword Brand  USA made Camillus 1013.  It's been carried but not sharpened.  Blade has light scratches and the sheath a little discoloration.  Paid too much for it, but that's what happens when you really want something.

Knife with sheath. Handle is delrin or some type of hard plastic. Brass rivets

Another view showing the upswept skinner blade. Nice gimping near the handle. Really nice lines.  Couldn't get the really nice sword brand blade etch  with my cheapo camera. You can see the marks where tarnish from the handle rivets stained the sheath.

I have six upswept skinners but only three made in the USA.  From left to right, the Case Ridgeback skinner with rosewood handle, the Camillus 1013, Bear & Son 753 Upswept Skinner.  The upswept skinner  is probably my favorite pattern of hunting knife.

Permalink Reply by Billy Oneale on May 7, 2012 at 22:34

That's a great looking knife, Toby. I'm glad to see more USA built Camillus knives coming up for sale.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 14, 2012 at 17:29

Thats a delrin handle?  Best I have ever seen in that material.  Great Knfe

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on May 14, 2012 at 17:49

I'm actually not sure.  I've been going through old Camillus Catalogs and I've yet to see it listed as anything other than India Stag.  I think the person who was selling it assumed Delrin because there is an ever so faint seem along the spine.  I'm thinking Camillus made the handle out of two pieces of stag, thare fitted to the hidden tang, then sanded down and epoxied together.  They then riveted it to the tang.  I took a close look under a magnifying glass and I see little abrasions near the guard that look like wear and tear on the handle that I've seen on stag but not resins.

I'm still looking into what the handle is.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on May 15, 2012 at 18:01

The Camillus T1 Marlin Spike (#18589) - a review.

Please excuse the cross posting but seeing as this is both Camillus and a Rigger, as it applies to both groups.

Camillus  T-1 with blade and spike deployed.  Clearly visible is the Camillus TM on the handle and the Carbonitride Titanium blade. The dark coloration of the blade makes it look smaller than the old USA made Camillus knives but it is actually the same size.

Short Verison:

I really like the knife, AUS 8 stainless blade with proprietary Carbonitride Titanium coating, stabilized bamboo scales, very strong liner lock for the sheepfoot blade. Very solid build, rivals if not better than the old USA made Camillus of  a similar pattern. Also better than any current production version of this knife.  Like all knives of this pattern, it will be difficult to use one handed on a slippery deck but you can deploy the blade one handed in a pinch. A very good but for the money.

For those who want to read more:

A little back ground:

As most people know, when it comes to USA made marlin spike knives most of them were made by Camillus (For sake of clarity I’ll call these the 695/697 patterns) . This included knives sold under the KaBar, Case and even Buck name.  Camillus also made the knife used by the U.S. Navy and many maritime services.  Regardless of the brand, all the knives were well made and today they are highly sought after by collectors of sailing knives. 

Early Camillus riggers used 1095 steel for the blades but this was later changed to 440A stainless. The blade actually was hardened to around 55-57 in the cutting area but was left softer near the tang to improve strength and reduce the chance of breakage.   The back springs remained carbon steel and depending on the year it was either a single thick spring or later they used two thing springs.  The blade did not lock however the marlin spike did.  The bail was used to “break” the lock and allow you to close it.

Very early handles were stag.  Stag was later replaced with a variety composition material depending on the year of manufacture and model produced. Obviously knives made for other knife makers were made to their specifications.

This brings us to 2007 and the unfortunate demise of an American Cutlery legend. With the end of Camillus, the manufacture of the marlin spike knives in the Camillus pattern virtually ended, at least in the United States.  Colonial is the last American company that may or may not produce a sailing knife on the 695/697 frame.

As many know Camillus was eventually bought by Acme United Brand and production continued, however, the production was now moved over seas.   Soon afterwards  Camillus began selling new pattern knives using  Carbonitride Titanium coated blades and using a variety of new material for handle materials one of them being stabilized bamboo.  Manufacturing was being done primarily in China.   The new Camillus brands stated in its advertising, that it knew and respected the Camillus name and brand and was going to continue to turn out high quality knives that would live up to the Camillus legacy.  So much for background.

About the T1

I recently bought a Chinese made Camillus T1 rigger based on the old 695/697 frame.  I bought it because 1) I buy Camillus knives  2) I collect riggers and have several made in China that are quite good 3) I wanted to see how the Chinese made Camillus stacked up against the USA made Camillus and all of my Chinese made riggers.

Overall impression:

Fit  & Finish: Excellent,  The bamboo is surprisingly smooth but still possesses a  certain amount of non-slip feel to it. The grain runs the length of the blade.  The new Camillus brand is laser etched into the shield side.  The scales are attached by torque screws.    Blades and all steel have a nice gun metal gray sheen to it. I suppose this is the Carbonitride Titanium coating.  Regardless it has a very nice sheen and is exceptionally smooth to touch.  The blade is pad stamped in tan ink with the Camillus the Carbonitride Titanium TM on the mark side and  Tang stamped AUS 8 on the reverse side.   Camillus guarantees that the finish will not fade, peel, chip, or crack.

Stay & Play: Beneath the bamboo is really a sturdy steel frame that is perhaps 3/32^nd or 1/8^th inch thick.  Camillus says the knife is a liner lock but this is simply because of the bamboo scales.  The thickness of the liner rivals that of any frame lock I’ve come across.  The sheepfoot blade is held in place primarily by the liner lock with very little if any pressure coming from the back spring.  This allows the user to actually pinch open the blade if required. The only real issue is the blade is well recessed and the handle quite heavy so practice and possibly re-gripping the blade might be required. However, anyone familiar with the original 695/697 pattern knife know that the original knife required two hands and did not lock open.  Once open the blade has absolutely no wobble whatsoever.

As mentioned, the back spring is very strong and you will be keenly aware of it when you go to open the marlin spike. I’m fairly certain it would be practically impossible wearing gloves in the rain.  In short all the short falls of the  695/697 pattern is still there. The main difference is this spike is tight in both the open and closed position. There is absolutely no wobble and when locked in place, it isn’t going anywhere.

How sharp is it?  The marlin spike is not needle sharp but has a good point to it. Definitely good enough to untie anything from a poorly knotted deck shoe to some of the large knots found on small boats.   It compares to the spikes on my Camillus knives and those on my Rough Riders of the same pattern.

The sheepfoot blade is absolutely razor sharp.  Paper and ¼ inch nylon cord didn’t stand a chance.  Neither did heavy cardboard boxes and a piece of bass wood.  Furthermore after cutting all of this stuff there wasn’t even a smudge on the blade finish.

As mentioned already the blade steel is AUS 8 which is similar to 440B making it not quite as good as 440C but better than 440A.   With that said, only a few knife makers use a better steel in sailing knives.  Most use 440A or 420HC, as this will resist rust better, despite needing more frequent sharpening.  Camillus says the Carbonitride Titanium coating is going to increase the edge retention as well as reduce rusting.  Obviously only time will tell.

Recommendations:

If you like this pattern, you really can’t go wrong with this knife. The fact that the main blade locks and is much easier to deploy than older versions makes it fantastic.  The blade steel is also remarkable for this style of knife.  The spike is going to require you take off your gloves so if you must use gloves while using the spike you might want to go for a similarly priced Myerchin P300 Sailor’s tool.

Collectors of Camillus knives are probably going to add this foreigner to their collection. I know I happy to have it. Acme really did a great job at making sure the knife lived up to the name.

The knife around $30-35. it’ll cost you at least twice that of a Rough Rider but for the additional price you get a locking sheepfoot a higher quality steel and a really solid knife.

The Colonial 1757 is slightly cheaper but quite frankly a Rough Rider is better than the 1757.  The Colonial 1758 is upscale version of the 1757 with wood handles and a slightly better finish however it cost more than the Camillus and isn’t nearly as functional or as well built. I put the 1758 on par with a Rough Rider despite costing around $35-40!  In short the Camillus T1 is head and shoulder above either of the Colonial knives,

How does The Camillus T 1 compare to new old stock Camillus. I hate to say it, but because of the liner lock and the better grade of steel, I’m giving the nod to the Chinese made Camillus.  Acme United must’ve known such a comparison would be inevitable and they went out of their way to make sure the new knife would exceed expectations.    Besides if you can get a mint, new old stock CM 695, 696, or 697, for $40, consider yourself lucky.

Overall, I’m very happy I bought the knife and now I’m looking at buying the other Camillus Chinese made marlin spike, the CM18670, with G-10 handles and VG10 super steel blade. Here’s hoping that Camillus will also home produce a sailing knife now that they have moved some production back the USA.

The T-1 knife has a similar side profile of the Camillus 695 and 697 pattern marlin spikes. Like the earlier Camillus knives the blade is plain.  The Camillus 696 offered a scalloped (serrated) blade.  Depending on year of production the blade was either ½ or fully scalloped.   The closed and open length of all the Camillus knives is the same.

As this photo shows, the T-1 is perhaps 1/8 to 3/16 inches thicker than its USA made cousins.  The added thickness actually seemed to improve the grip of this very slender frame. While it will obviously result in a more bulk in the pocket, the bamboo handle is not only tough but very light. Therefore the knife is the same weight as the previous models.

The stabilized bamboo handles are water, splinter, mildew, and warp proof. They are also stain resistant but I suspect the bamboo will darken with age and handling.  The laser etching is very nicely done.  Older patterns had bird eye rivets or nickel-silver bolsters.  In the case of the T 1 the handles are secured with torque screws.  I’m not sure how easy they come off but it may proof an asset for people who are thinking of adding custom scales.  The knife would look great with white bone scales and scrimshaw work.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 16, 2012 at 18:59

Excellent information, Great Read.  That Camillus has such an old world look to it.  Pure classic in style.  Thanks for sharing those with us

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on July 27, 2012 at 9:56

Somewhere, someone asked what type of steel was used in the Spike.  I got an answer from Camilluis:

Tobias,

Thank you for contacting Camillus Knives.  Apologies for the delay in responding to you.  Yes, the marlin spike is also AUS – 8.  Hope this helps.

 

Best Regards,

Camillus Knives

I didn't ask them about the heat treatment on the spike and that indeed may be different than the blade.   In fact many knife companies have different heat treatment for different parts of the blade, with the tang of folding knives often be softer than the cutting edge to reduce the likelihood of the blade breaking. So it could very well be that the tip of spike could have a different temper than the shank.   This kind of information is not so easy to come by.

Permalink Reply by Billy Oneale on November 11, 2012 at 20:08

Here is the last  Camillus I have bought from E bay. I accidentally hit $500.00 while trying to hit $5.00. I about had a heart attack when i realized it, But the knife went for about $12.00. 

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