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When is a Chinese made knife NOT ok?

On the heels of AG Russell's statement...and my own blog on "Where does that knife come from?", this blog posting attempts to tackle another controversial issue; Chinese-made knives. Before I really get into answering the title's question of "When is a Chinese-made knife NOT ok?", I should probably lay a little groundwork:

* I have Chinese-made knives in my collection. I do. They are from a variety of manufacturer's brands. Some are liner locks. Some are slip joints. Some are frame locks. I've got 'em...and my purchasing of most of them was very PREMEDITATED. Unfortunately, I can't say that I only own Chinese-made knives because some con-artist got the better of me. I knew what I was doing when I bought the knives...and for the most part, I don't regret buying them. Of my entire collection, Chinese knives make up less than 10%. The vast majority of my collection is American-made with Japanese-made blades probably coming in second-place (in total quantity).

* As I stated in my blog post of "Where does that knife come from?", I consciously buy American-made knives before any other. Though I'm reiterating what I said in the previous blog, I do this to help keep Americans employed and I fervently believe that every dollar spent in this country is more valuable than it would be spent abroad. That's why I buy American; it's not that I necessarily believe that "American-made knives are best!"...because that really isn't true.

Ok...those things now out of the way...let's get rolling. What are my favorite Chinese-made knives? Well...that's a good question. Hands-down, they are the ones that Spyderco markets. It's as simple as that. After that, probably my Benchmade Nagara. Then some Bokers and a few Bucks. The fact of the matter is that these knives make good users (with the exception of the Nagara; which is too pretty to use). They play a very practical role in my EDC...because they are decently made, very effective, practical and inexpensive (meaning that I can loose them and not be chewing railroad spikes angry). Yeah...my reason for having these is very "practical". That said, I have to confess that I'm very pleased to see that the prices of Chinese-made knives are climbing. Why on earth would I be happy about seeing the prices increase? It puts more pressure on the Chinese companies to make "better" knives...and it starts to level the playing field for manufacturers from other countries (not just America).

Now you may be thinking, "So. You have some Chinese knives. Those nifty Spyderco's don't seem to cause you any shame, do they?" Nope, they don't. Frankly, I have no problem with the Chinese knives made from Spyderco, Boker, Benchmade (though only some of the HK's are still made in China), CRKT, Kershaw and Buck (very few of their knives are now made in Asia). As far as I'm concerned, those Chinese-made blades are just fine to import and sell here in the US. They don't really do much to hurt US knife manufacturing as an industry. At least not at this point in time. That said...there comes a time when I do have a HUGE problem with Chinese-made knives. What I'm going to talk about next gives me a MASSIVE case of heart burn!

Spyderco, Benchmade, Boker, CRKT, Kershaw and Buck are all still "alive and well". Boker isn't a US company, but I certainly appreciate them as a German company...and what they've done for the cutlery industry overall. As for Kershaw...well, they are a Japanese-owned company that has most of it's manufacturing done in the US. CRKT is a marketing and importing company...and I think that 100% of their blades are Asian-made. However, Chinese-made knives are being made and sold under the brand names of Schrade, Camilus, Kissing Crane, Marble...and a few others. I have a SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THIS. In fact, I outright detest it! I consider it downright criminal. Rotten, rotten, rotten...and totally unethical.

So...what's the difference between a Chinese-made Spyderco and a Chinese-made Schrade? Schrade is out of business! A once proud and vital company...that employed thousands of US citizens is gone. It can't be argued that Chinese-made knives were a contributing COMPETING factor in the demise of that company...and Camilus...and others. Fairly...or unfairly...it really sticks in my craw that a marketing company (aka Taylor Brands...I think) is picking the carcasses of these defunct companies...AND BENEFITING FROM IT.

Yes...foreign competition isn't the only reason that Schrade, Camilus, Kissing Crane, Marble and the like went out of business. Certainly, management errors played a role. Business is tough...even during boom markets. I don't totally blame Chinese knife manufacturing for the demise of these once-great companies. Still...I am bothered...greatly...by the idea that somebody is leveraging the hard-developed brand value of these companies to line their own pockets. That is just plain wrong.You may be thinking to yourself, "Yeah...but those companies are out of business. Why does it matter is somebody sells knives under those names?" It matters...and here's "why""

How many Chinese knife manufacturing companies have a successfully developed brand identity? Can you name a single one? I can; Cas Hanwei. There's one and they are the exception to the rule. While I appreciate the hard work and dedication that some of these Asian manufacturing companies put into producing knives for their American corporate customers...I don't like that they copy/steal technology and knowledge to make their money. I don't like that they can't build a brand....quality brand...100% on their own...without borrowing from another company's hard won identity. Brand identity...brand VALUE...is hard to come by. It takes years...even decades...for a company to create a valued brand that consumers recognize and appreciate. It takes blood, sweat, tears, elbow grease, soul, passion,inspiration, sacrifice, dedication, endurance, perseverance...and more...to build a brand that people like enough to buy over and over. I simply can't respect a company that can't build their own brand...and has to "borrow" value from the efforts of another company. In a way...that a company can build a knife...and market it as a Schrade, Camilus, Marble...and the like...is a legalized form of theft. Selling those "imitations"...with the implied persona of brand legitimacy...is just as wrong in the knife industry as it is in any other industry (watches and clothing are much plagued by the criminally-produced imitation industry).

I like foreign-made knives. I have a bunch of Bokers that I enjoy. I have a number of CRKT knives that I like. I really enjoy my Fallkniven blades. I dig my Opinels. Every single one of those companies has a reputation that THEY BUILT themselves. With that said, I'd rather buy a Chinese-made knife that had a Chinese company's name on it...than one that said "Schrade", but wasn't a Schrade. For what it's worth to know, I've purchase some Chinese-made Schrade knives...solely for the purpose of comparing them to the Schrade originals. Guess what? Close but no cigar! The originals are certainly nicer and better made. An original beats an imitation any day of the week. It's been that way for eons...and it will always be that way. You just can't beat the real thing...

Tags: China, Chinese-made, US, copy, cutlery, imitation, industry, infringement, knives, vs.

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In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 30, 2011 at 7:35: Kent, well said, that about sums up my thoughts too. Catch 22

Comment by KENT GABLE on September 29, 2011 at 19:43: Chris- well put article which I agree with whole heartedly. I admit to owning one Chinese made knife but I can't say that I'm truly happy with it due to the low quality Asian steel that is used and causes it to dull down too quickly. Despite it's low price and excellent blade design I'm not happy with it and that seems to be typical of so many of China's products?

Of course China's quality is improving and they are becoming more efficient in knife making and other products as well.

It's more than that though, as you so aptly described. I LIKE buying American made products and I also do not like what China has been doing with the money we've sent them to build up their military might. I also do not like their government's treatment toward their own people as well as others when it comes to human rights.

I regret to see that A.G. Russell has been forced economically to now have all their knives made in China but that ought to be telling you something. How long before Case XX or Buck folds completely under their competition as well? And this goes a lot further than just knives. It's their competitive edge on virtually everything produced and I do not see as how we can compete with them on anything when so many are willing to work for so little?

Please understand that I harbor no ill will toward the Chinese people but their government has got to be laughing at us all the way to the bank.

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 29, 2011 at 15:15: Every year I give away a bunch of knives from China to young hunters and fishermen. The reason they come from China is mostly the price point. Heck, the NRA gives knives from China as gifts. Do I feel bad about this? Not a bit. I could not afford better knives for them.

Comment by Billy Oneale on September 28, 2011 at 22:03: Another well written article, Chris. I bought a lot of cheap crap when I first started collecting, even some imported Schrades. I haven't bought a Schrade in a long time for the very reason you state. I have a few Kissing Cranes, but I usually look to try and find the German built ones which are hard to find. I do like the Rough Riders and have a lot of them. Some of the tactical type folders you mentioned are well built as far as production knives can be, but issues do come up. I recently bought a Schatt & Morgan baby sunfish that was not very well built by Queen. I got it fairly cheap, but was really not happy with the quality of it. I will get around to posting it and telling why in a different forum soon. James hit it on the nail, when he said quality control is the main problem.

Comment by Halicon on September 28, 2011 at 14:41: James, isn't it a bit ignorant to flat out reject a whole country? You can't judge every knife made from China solely based on what they export and what their big production lines spit out.

If you compare what they chug out from smelting spoons and whatnot then yes, you're right. You are however comparing handmade quality to stuff that cost a fraction. There are plenty of makers in China that hold vast amount of forging knowledge and can refine a steel craft much further than the classic oil quenching of western crafts.

Many Chinese blacksmiths regularly travel to Japan to apprentice at master smiths and are thus capable of forging very refined crafts that meet the high standard of traditional handcrafts of the government.

I'm quite confident to say that those smiths can forge a blade of far greater martensitic structure than a regular smith here in the west.

Comment by Jan Carter on September 26, 2011 at 18:54: Chris,

Another well written article. I know that companies buy other knife company names when a company goes out of business. You all know I mostly collect in the Great Eastern lines. The company heading includes Great Eastern, Tidioute and Northfield knives. The reason I have never had any issues with those being the names of previous manufatures is that not only are they still US manufactured but the new factory is just a stones throw for each of those original factories. Who knows they may be employing a few folks that had ancestors working in those factories. They buy thier steel from US based companies also. The originally named companies had been out of business for several decades before those names were purchased. So I really do not have a problem with a company name being purchased.

As Don said, my issue would come from not being told where the knife is being manufactured. I beleive there are well known manufactures that dont disclose where they get the materials for the knives they assemble in the US. At this point I would have no problem with buying an AG Russel because I know where he is having his knives made. I appluad him in placing that notice in his catalog. In this industry disclosure is not always done by the owners of the companies.

I also have to agree with Dale. Rough Rider has earned thier reputation and never tried to hide where they produce their products.

I do wish imports, good, bad or otherwise were required to dislcose country of origin...even in thier marketing. Making an informed decision to buy imported is one thing, being surprised when you get the knife is another

Comment by Alexander Noot on September 26, 2011 at 6:53: For me it's simple:

An imitation? No way. If I buy a certain design I want to buy it from the people that spent money and energy in designing it. Simple as that.

However when a knife is an original design (or name) and is produced in China, no problem for me.

In Memoriam Comment by D ale on September 25, 2011 at 22:54: Why limit the question to CHINESE made KINIVES .. (I know, because of their rep & total un-acceptance within this community of our’s, I know) .. go for the bigger question .. when is ANY made knife not OK ?????????????

imo .. when the quality & craftsmanship are so lacking that the knife becomes a danger to the user.

Relative to the earning of one’s name & reputation .. like the original MARBLE’S, Remington, etc .. I do believe ROUGH RIDER has justly earned their name .. a level of quality that surpasses the cost .. at least, when compared to their peers.

Most, in the name of greed, have only bastardized the purchased brand names when moving production off-shore .. e.g. current MARBLE’S. There’s good money to be made by purchasing a cutlery name synonymous with quality .. moving production off shore .. intentionally producing quantities of LOW quality product to sell @ the former cost .. all performed with forethought and the intent to increase personal wealth. I also detest this level of greed.

An aspect made apparent through all this that horrifies me is that many newer members of the knife collecting community are simply ignorant of history.

Case in point .. about a yr ago I mentioned some MARBLE’S (meaning late 1800’s ~ early 1900’s production) .. to which another member responded ..”Marble’s .. isn’t that that cheap sht outta china ?). He is right .. all current production ..imo.. is “cheap sht outta china” BUT the original MARBLE’S earned the position of being quite possibly the most respected cutlery brand of it’s time .. and so many are simply unaware of this. THAT is a crime !!!

Others, such as the earlier mentioned Taylor’s Brands, have .. with forethought & design .. profited highly !!! Some call it unfettered capitalism .. I’ll simply call it greed.

Yuppers .. a pet peev of mine too !!!