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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 30, 2015 at 9:40

My latest Bayonet is an M5-1 Bayonet. These bayonets replaced the earlier M-1 bayonets made for the M1 Garand Rifle.  Some folks claim they are Korean War era bayonets, however they did not come into service until shortly after the Korean War ended.    The M5 bayonet is basically a redesign of the M4 Bayonet which was used on the M1 Carbine.   With the end of WWII,  the philosophy of the long bladed bayonet had come to a complete end and the U.S.  Military had determined the 6 3/4 inch blade of the M4 bayonet was an ideal length.  The blade geometry was also considered a good compromise between a fighting knife and a utility knife.

(M5-1 Bayonet with M8a1 Scabbard.  The Scabbard fits the M3 Trench knife as well as Us Bayonets, M4 through M7 as all share the same blade!)

The M5 design was ingenious in that it dispensed with the traditional barrel ring on the cross guard and instead used a small stud that recessed into the M1 gas plug. The bayonet was further modified by making a larger release button for the pommel latch which allowed for the easier use of the bayonet when where heavy gloves or mittens.  Because the bayonet used the same blade as the M4 Bayonet, the M8a1 scabbard was used with both.  The M8a1 scabbard would see continued use with the later M6 Bayonet used by the M14 Rifle and the M7 Bayonet used with the M16 family of rifles and carbines.

(gas plug stud mount)

(the markings appear on the cross guard only)

Many sources quote 1953 has the year of introduction for the M5 Bayonet and because of this it is often passed off as a Korean War Veteran.  In fact it was a child of the Korean War but not used it in! The M5 was adopted July 30, 1953 as the Bayonet-Knife M5. First contracts were issued to Imperial (who held the patent) and Utica.  First deliveries were not deliveries made by either company until late 1953. During 1954 contracts were issued to Aerial and J&D Tool. Since official hostilities ended in Korea during late July 1953;  it can be seen that no M5 bayonet was used in official combat actions. That said, the prototype T10 Bayonets that were the basis of the M5 were most likely field tested during the Korean War.  These bayonets, however would not be stamped M5, M5a1, or M5-1

(Hard to read in the photo, Guard is stamped J&D Tool Co.)

 

The  M5 was later modified with slight changes to the release button and other small details and re-designated M5a1.  These bayonets were either stamped m5a1 or M5-1 depending on the maker. Imperial and Utica, stamped their updated M5 bayonets with “M5a1”  Aerial and Jones & Dickinson stamped their updated M5s, “M5-1”    Markings only appeared on the cross guard.  Knives made in the USA were stamped US followed by the model number on the blade side of the cross bar. On the flip side was maker.  Several M5 and M5a1 Bayonets were also made in South Korea and these are stamped with the letter K.

(On the left the barrel ring used on the M7 bayonet for an M16, on the right the M5 gas plug stud. Note how much better the handles  fit is on the older M5!)

The M5 series of bayonets remained in production until the early 1960s, being phased out from service as the M14 replaced the M1 in active and reserve units. Surprisingly, some reserve units never received the M5 bayonets going straight from the older M1 bayonets to the new M6 bayonets when they had  switched from M1 Garands to M14s.

 

My particular M5-1 is made by Jones & Dickinson.  It belonged to my Father in Law.  It was issued to him while serving  as a signal man in the U.S.M.C. in 1956-57.

(M5-1 [top] and M7 [bottom] in their M8a1 Scabbards.  All Genuine U.S. Military issue)

Top to bottom, Ontario M3 trench knife [modern era],  J&D M5-1 bayonet for the M1 Garand, and BOC M7 Bayonet for the M16 family of riflles/carbines.  Note they all share the same blade and general dimensions.  Blade steel is for all is a 1095 Carbon hardened to around 54-57 HRC.

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Permalink Reply by AlecsKnives on September 30, 2015 at 20:33

http://iknifecollector.com/photo/longgermansword3?xg_source=activity

This is a beast of a bayonet.  One of our members here on IKC did some research, The owner believed it was a german knife.  Turns out it is a bayonet Here is what John McCain found out  (and many kudos to him for doing the digging)           

This is a 1914 Pioneer bayonet issued to select troops for the Swiss- Sawtooth designed for engineers, artilliery, etc, and certain ranks-- Could have seen service in WWI- The Swiss never actually supplied weapons per se to the Germans ( being neutral) but were still used by the Germans somehow--These were actually designed for clearing brush,etc,-- Germany actually issued a decree in 1917 to file off the serrated blades, as many German prisoners were shot on sight for possessing one, because of the grievous wounds they would inflict-- However, saw-toothed blades were still seen in WWII, and disused because of them getting snagged in Russian Greatcoats and getting shot for owning one as previously mentioned.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on September 30, 2015 at 22:28

These Sawtooth Bayonets are M1898/05 bayonets known commonly as butcher knife bayonets.  The butcher knife comes from the fact that the blade resembled the fat blade of the common butcher knives of the era. This was a modification made in 1905.  the earlier M1898 bayonets were a more slender build and had a tendency to break when you jabbed them into a person.  A thicker blade allowed for a heaver thicker spine.   The bayonets were made with and without saw backs from the beginning.  The saw-back butcher bayonets  were issued to engineers (sappers), Squad Leaders, and machine gun teams as these were the troops who were most likely  to need a saw.

While it is true that the saw teeth left a ghastly wound, German soldiers  who actually had to use them as a weapon started filing down the saw teeth way before a decree was issued.  While it is true the Triple Entente, made claims that the German developed the bayonet for sheer brutality and used it as a propaganda tool to turn the Germans in bloodthirsty Huns, the Germans began filing off teeth before the propaganda set in.
From what I've read, the main reason the Germans began removing the teeth was because if you jabbed it into a soldier, especially one wearing a great coat, the saw teeth would get caught on the material and you couldn't remove it.   Initially German soldiers would grind the teeth off at the front and some were court martialed for damaging their equipment. As more reports filtered in from the front, The German High Command order that the teeth be removed. 
Also I have read at least two sources that say it was done for ethical reasons. And while this may be the case, we are talking about a nation that re-introduced unrestricted submarine warfare around the same time as this decree was made. This is one reason I lean toward the "soldiers were getting killed because their bayonets were getting hung up on the enemy" theory of the removal of the saw teeth.

Surprisingly, you still find fighting knives and bayonets made with a sawtooth spine, today.  So much for such a weapon being too nasty for an ethical war!

Incidentally, the blade on the  M1898/05 was mere 14.5 inches long  as compared to the M1898 which was 20.5 inches long.  The original M1898  also had saw tooth saw tooth variant.

The  M1898/05 was the most commonly issued German Bayonet during WWI, however most of them did not have the saw back. 

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Permalink Reply by Ms Data on October 1, 2015 at 7:50

These are very cool.  I still would like to find a bayonet for my Carcano.  However, just throwing this out there because when I dug a little bit into the history of my "Glock knife" I found out it was really designed to be a bayonet.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 1, 2015 at 8:55

Ms Data, the Carcano Bayonets are out there but they aren't necessarily cheap.  The run in the $50-$100 range depending on the quality.  Obviously you will also see people trying to sell them in the $100-$200 range on Ebay but those prices are pretty unrealistic.  Keep hunting, that is half the fun.

As for the Glock knife, It is a  Glock Feldmesser 78  which is the combat knife/bayonet for  Styer AUG Rifle.  It is not marketed as such for the Civilian market but there is no real discernable difference.

It was issued with a small adapter that attached to the AUG's barrel that allowed the knife to be mounted and used a bayonet.  The plastic plug on the pommel of the knife was removed and the knife slid on this mount.  The "bottle opener" on the top of the cross guard, rested against the flash supressor.  Typical of many Austrian and German bayonet, it has no barrel ring.  While most people associate the barrel ring as a defining element of a bayonet, there plenty of them out there that lack it.

While were at it, the Fledmesser 81 was an updated version of the Feldmesser 78.  Both ar capable of being used as a bayonet.  The principle difference on the knife?  Well see for yourself!  

Really cool knife/bayonet, Ms Data.  Thanks for sharing.

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Permalink Reply by Ms Data on October 1, 2015 at 14:12

Tobias, you're right about the Carcano bayonets.  I just can't justify paying more for the bayonet than I did for the rifle.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on October 1, 2015 at 14:34

Ms Data said:

Tobias, you're right about the Carcano bayonets.  I just can't justify paying more for the bayonet than I did for the rifle.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Frisk on March 9, 2020 at 6:10

Hello, im new to this group. I just acquired via online auction what is said to be a WW2 German Bayonet. It looks very cool to me. I know this reply is to an old thread. However, Im wondering if anyone in the group can tell me how I can get it out of its sheath. It has already broken at the bottom. Theres a "lever" like piece I see that needs to be moved somehow, likely either pulled up or turned. I do not want to break it--can anyone give me advice? After I get out of the sheath, I will post pics of the full bayonet. Also if anyone can give me info on the piece Id appreciate it. Thank you! See pics attached. Jim

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• Bayonet4.jpg, 154 KB

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