Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 10, 2012 at 8:09

Terry, I didn't say you were completely wrong, just a little wrong.  Again much of what you are saying is correct.  My only point is I think our government has over reached in many areas and has caused an environment that makes it difficult for many American companies to manufacture here.   Another part of the problem is we have given countries "Most Favored" status for importing in to this country that don't deserve it.  There are several countries who have human rights records that are better than the PRC who will never get most favored status because of points you bring up, yet administration after administration and one congress after another keeps allowing the PRC to have most favored status.

We have rules in place already that need to be applied fairly.   I think we probably should start a discussion group on knife politcs

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 10, 2012 at 8:50

Wow.  I just  lost my edit. What I was going to say is if  there isn't a place, it would be nice to have a moderated  place where we could have a reasoned discussion on both  global and local  knife politics and laws.   It could prove very thought provoking as long as it doesn't turn into  tirades about "pot metal" and "junk steel".    Yes there is junk being made in PEC and other countries, but there are also reputable American companies who are producing quality made products there as well.   And yes PRC has what amounts to slave labor and Some Americans embrace such standards while others work hard to bring  American working conditions and a living wage to their Chinese employees.

Anyway, a moderated discussion group that would screen for personal attacks  and off topic trades would be worthwhile.  A similar section in Knives Illustrated could also be of interest, especially if it discussed local knife laws and legislative actions that will an impact on the industry.

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Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 10, 2012 at 9:36

J.J.  I agree.  One way to get us out of debt, put more tax payers back on the rolls and put the USA back in the #1 spot is to buy only American made.  Exceptions, for now, would be those items we use which are not made here.  Yes it will cost us more.  The stark truth is.....we will be paying one way or another.  I rather pay for the American Made  items....paying more than buy Made in China items giving them our money and then pay higher taxes to keep us going.  Next time you go to Wally World see if you can find Made in America or USA on anything.  Thanks J.J. 

J.J. Smith III said:

Clint,

It sure would be great  to be able to kick-start American companies again.  I'd hate to see any more go under.

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Permalink Reply by Terry Waldele on February 10, 2012 at 13:42

Hey, this is great!  You all have some excellent ideas, and a discussion group would be good place to start.  Another thing that would be worth investigating is the work that manufacturers' associations and their lobbyists are doing to improve things.  If we start a discussion group on this issue, maybe the manufacturers will take notice and help us formulate an action plan.  If it's OK, I'll start the discussion group.  How does this title sound to you:  "The Ugly Politics of Knife Making and Marketing in the Global Marketplace"?

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 10, 2012 at 15:52

Works for me Terry.

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Permalink Reply by Terry Waldele on February 10, 2012 at 19:39

OK, unless anyone objects, I'll go ahead and start the new Group.  Borrowing from Tobias, here's my proposed introduction:

"Are you fed up with foreign-made knives and tools that steal jobs from Americans (especially products made in the People's Republic of China, the PRC).  Well, here's your chance to be heard!  Member Clint Thompson recently posted a poll of iKC members entitled "HELP! FELLOW iKC MEMBERS.  I NEED YOUR HELP",  in which he asked for iKC members' input on some research he is doing for Knife Illustrated magazine.  His questions included the following: 

"As a potential reader about firearms, knives, camping and other outdoor related subjects, what would a magazine cover have to have in order to attract you attention to pick it up?  Once the magazine is in your hands, what articles listed on the cover would cause you to open it up and look inside?  What subject matter would cause you to buy this magazine?"

Several members responded to his poll and expressed their support for Knife Illustrated  including a regular feature discussing the issue of American knife companies having their products made in foreign countries, the numerous problems created for the American knife industry by this practice and the politics involved in trying to solve these problems.   After some discussion by several members, member Tobias Gibson commented that:  "... it would be nice to have a moderated  place where we could have a reasoned discussion on both  global and local  knife politics and laws", and "A moderated discussion group that would screen for personal attacks  and off topic trades would be worthwhile.  A similar section in Knives Illustrated could also be of interest, especially if it discussed local knife laws and legislative actions that will (have) an impact on the industry."

In response to the aforementioned discussion and and Tobias's comments specifically, I am proposing that a new iKC Group be formed accordingly and that it be named "The Ugly Politics of Knife Making and Marketing in the Global Marketplace."

Please give me your input on this proposal.  Thanks."

I plan to post this as a poll of all iKC members.  Sound OK to you folks?

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Permalink Reply by Billy Oneale on February 10, 2012 at 19:53

It's ok with me as long as everyone is civil about it.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 10, 2012 at 20:32

I'm in the same boat.  While I'm not crazy about the politics, I'm also one of the biggest supporters of Rough Rider Knives out there.    There ar emany American Companies, including W.R. Case and Sons who have realized a need to go off shore just to stay afloat.   Like it or not, there are plenty of Americans who would also be out of business without off shore production.   I'm not a "Buy American" or else person.  This is one reason why, while I think there is room for such a group, I'm not the person to run it.

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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on February 10, 2012 at 22:06

"Did I do that?"

 

It wasn't my intention to start a firestorm on the import knife market, or on taxes and regulations and such.  My comment was intended to have KI highlight some American companies to stir up new interest in American products.

I'd hope that the increased awareness of American knife companies would spur new patterns and increase sales.

Look what happened with Schrade.  The product line had grown stale.  (Not a fan of Taylor Brands) but look what Stewart Taylor has done with the line, NEW patterns,  NEW handle materials and it seems to be working for them.  Quality is not what it was, true, but they are selling. 

I'm not a fan of the CASE vault program.  Take a popular pattern and lock it away for 3 years and loose those sales.    Don't seem right to me.

Let me get off my soapbox before I start something else.

J.J. Smith III said:

Clint,

It sure would be great  to be able to kick-start American companies again.  I'd hate to see any more go under.

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on February 11, 2012 at 7:45

I think some topics are too sensitive to be discussed here in our club and they won't get us anywhere. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong, but please respect the other guys veiws.

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on February 11, 2012 at 11:04

Robert makes a very good point.  Like Linus Van Pelt said There are three things you should never talk about, "Religion, Politics, and the Great Pumpkin"

If it is to be done, it needs to be in a specific discussion group and it must be meditated to prevent flaming, personal attacks, etc.

Most important is that you need to respect the other guy's opinion.  I would love it if my Rough Rider knives were made in America.  I'm sure there was a time when people would've loved it if Parker wasn't making knives in Japan, also.

I think it is vital that any political discussion area needs to not only focus on the politics of "global" knife making but all local and state legislation and efforts to ban certain types of knives here in the US and such.

While the global market is a festering sore for many people,  we need to approach it soberly and reasoned discussion, not hot-headed insults which is often the ways some of the discussions on topic turn out.

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Permalink Reply by Clint Thompson on February 11, 2012 at 14:39

Terry....Being a register Republican who votes Independent and has Libertarian tendencies I say....COOL!

Terry Waldele said:

Hey, this is great!  You all have some excellent ideas, and a discussion group would be good place to start.  Another thing that would be worth investigating is the work that manufacturers' associations and their lobbyists are doing to improve things.  If we start a discussion group on this issue, maybe the manufacturers will take notice and help us formulate an action plan.  If it's OK, I'll start the discussion group.  How does this title sound to you:  "The Ugly Politics of Knife Making and Marketing in the Global Marketplace"?

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