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Unknown Case Pattern

I have a Case knife that looks like a Congress pattern with a slight arch, but has two blades like a jack knife. It is a Case Tested XX era knife and measures 3 3/4" long. Any ideas on pattern?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jacob White on September 9, 2013 at 21:43

Oops, here is the picture.

FeaturedPermalink Reply by Craig Henry on September 10, 2013 at 17:04

That's a beauty!!

Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on September 10, 2013 at 17:55

Never seen a half congress set up like this. It is a beautiful looking knife. Could it be a rebuild?

Permalink Reply by Jacob White on September 10, 2013 at 19:48

There are no number stamps on the blades. Looking at the brass main pin and handle pin, there are no marks made by a spinning tool that was used on older Case knives. Also, the shield appears to not have been inlet into the bone. Not to say it isn't a rebuild, but you definitely have me leaning that way. It is all so tight, that if it is a rebuild, someone knew what they were doing.

Permalink Reply by Jacob White on September 10, 2013 at 22:07

Thanks for the information. I appreciate everyone looking into this. I have sent an email to Mr. Levine. The thought of a prototype crossed my mind, but I thought, "What are the chances?" I'll definitely let you know what I find out.

Permalink Reply by peter force on September 11, 2013 at 9:46

hey jacob.. FIRST OF IM NO CASE EXPERT AT ALL- but you dont need to be to tell what is wrong here.

i want to tell you that from here i can already tell that the knife has been worked and not just a parts knife..this was worked and cleaned with the intent to make it look mint.

its a guess but was it advertised as MINT..or close to it?

...just from the front tang stamp on that pen blade is enough,only little bit to go with but enough.

look how the C in CASE is wrapped around the A... this is never how the stamp was ever produced. i can not see it that well but the stamp on the main blade- look at the E that you can see.NOW see how much space their is left open on the main blade with the E...but then on the pen blade the E not only looks like it has a second little line under it...its almost touching the C line.

also the sheild has lots wrong...either stamped over or letters added one at a time like the tang stamp.look how large the A and S are vs the rest of the letters.also the spacing is wrong.either way sheild is bad.

the pins are wrong as well. they seem to be peened not spun.with the center pin rounded a little better.

NO POCKET WEAR AT ALL EVEN THOUGH BLADES HAVE BEEN CLEANED or e new. i can tell this easily by the PULLS.

this looks just like one of the works of an ebay seller i know... that is notorious for case fakes.

the stamp is his trademark of his fakes... the large C wrapping the A.

again i am no expert but i know that the tang stamp is wrong at the very least and that is enough for me to put it down and walk away. even with the rst i will mention....THE TANG STAMP IS ALL YOU WOULD NEED TO KNOW TO NOT BUY THIS KNIFE.

let me know please if you could if this was a recent ebay purchase,MY GUESS IS YES.i would even call out the seller right now but it of course may not be them or even ebay but some fakes im getting use to so much that i know which sellers they come from.i would say start your own ebay list now if you are an ebayer.eventually though it wont matter if you study enough.

EXAMPLE-with this knife it would have only taking the time to study the family of case tang stamps...and not all of them ...only the ones with the LONG TAIL C.before buying knives like this i would at the very least ,study. one other thing to point out real quick here...you can at ti8mes have REAL stamps on fake blades or even real blades...the parts are out their!

if you spent a lot of $$ and were looking for a nice knife and dont want this- you can get your money back! -hope i helped-

PLEASE IF YOU CAN MORE PICS. ESPECIALLY OF THE TANGS STAMPS IT WOULD BE GREAT!

also look inside the belly of the knife with a 10x glass or better and little light..look for all the right pins...the sheild to be pinned and one of the things most folks dont look at ...where the kick of the knife lands on the inside spring...almost 99% of the time a kick never hits the same place twice if taken apart to clean.this knife with the blades the way they are has in fact been taken apart.no way to get blades that clean or they are new. they could be new blades with fake stamp,and just made to look a bit worn.

ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO DECEIVE with fakes..right down to sticking a piece of lint down in the belly of the knife.

Permalink Reply by peter force on September 11, 2013 at 9:47

please let me know...fake knives jacob is one of my passions!

Jacob White said:

Thanks for the information. I appreciate everyone looking into this. I have sent an email to Mr. Levine. The thought of a prototype crossed my mind, but I thought, "What are the chances?" I'll definitely let you know what I find out.

Permalink Reply by peter force on September 11, 2013 at 10:22

jacob spinning of pins wasnt something done on older knives it was done one newer knives.i think the date is around 1920-21..is when pin spinning started in USA.... also i mention in the epic answer i left about the knife to check to see if the shield has been pinned..it looks like its floating on the bone.
Jacob White said:

There are no number stamps on the blades. Looking at the brass main pin and handle pin, there are no marks made by a spinning tool that was used on older Case knives. Also, the shield appears to not have been inlet into the bone. Not to say it isn't a rebuild, but you definitely have me leaning that way. It is all so tight, that if it is a rebuild, someone knew what they were doing.

Permalink Reply by peter force on September 11, 2013 at 11:46

sorry to hijack the post but i wentt ahead and really dug deep for you and i have a book with at least what they think to be every case shield used to date. it is the type of shield from the TESTED era.

BUT-the shield on this knife is not only most likely fake. i would say almost 100% its way to small and meant for another knife. if you take a step back and just look at the entire knife you can tell the shield is a bad fit. - i hope i helped.my goal is never to bash a knife- thanx for sharing it... more pics would rock!...

Permalink Reply by Jacob White on September 11, 2013 at 13:08

I looked inside the knife last night for the pins. It appears that there is only one, but it was difficult to be certain. This knife is from a collector who passed away last year. His widow is having me to help her sell the knives. He did buy several knives in his collection off ebay, but I'm not sure if this was one of them. He had them in the felt lined elastic holder books. It was right beside a more conventional looking congress knife, but it too looks suspicious to me. May be that he bought two at the same time from the same faker. Anyway, I've emailed Case and will be sending them a pic shortly. I'll let you know what they say. As far as the pins, I was referring to the spinning tool marks that are absent that typically seem to be present on the Tested era knives (1920-1940). That would match up with your 1920-21 date of when spinning was started. So to summarize, the pins and shield look suspect to me, and add in your info on the tang...I hope he didn't pay too much.

Permalink Reply by Jacob White on September 11, 2013 at 21:36

I discussed this knife with Mark Zalesky and here was his response:

Sorry Jacob, it's a fake. Here are a few things that stand out to me.First off, the stamps look fake. It's hard to tell from the photos but it seems like the ends of the impressions are rounded rather than square -- that's a sign of a modern stamp. The stamps are too evenly deep, too sharp and clear, too clean, and the tangs are too clean as well.

The pull on the master blade is too far out to be a Case. It strikes me as a little too narrow as well.

The bone is not Case bone at all, not from any era of Case's history.

The tang stamp is Tested, but the shield is from a later knife. There was some crossover with XX era shields on Tested-blade knives so that's not always a deal-breaker, but if this were a Tested knife it would have to be a real early one and that doesn't match up.

Finally, Case knives from the Tested era, and later, are very consistent and very well documented. There really are no 'surprise' patterns -- that only happens with pre-1920 knives, and not all that often even then. That consistency helps make Case collecting easier, you don't have that luxury with other brands.

For more on the stamps and such, I recommend the book "Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery" by Gerald Witcher -- we actually have it at a great price right now, $17.95.

Mark

Permalink Reply by Ken Spielvogel on September 12, 2013 at 6:49