Replies to This Discussion

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 3, 2017 at 19:30

Jan,

Your reply indicates Donnie is perhaps making a mosaic pin based on this discussion. And, possibly, you too. That is cool ..&.. I take that as a compliment. Please .. let me suggest .. choose something relatively simple the first time out. Also, keep it as short as possible. You might not believe just how much simpler that makes the whole process !!!

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I purposely chose what is likely the most complicated one I've made to date. It will greatly enhance one's chances @ success by choosing a design that is slightly less complicated. I've got a pic of an EXTREMELY simple one & then another that is not so simple ..but.. not as complicated as the one I'm doing for this project.

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Anyway .. my point being .. avoid getting in over your head the first time out of the gate. I'd save the more complicated ones for after you've some practical experience under your belt.

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Granted .. the first 2 examples are too simplistic.

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The 3rd example I put in Hannah's camp knife & is complicated enough to be a challenge. Especially if SMALL pins were to be placed between the flat sides of the sq tube & the round copper tube just outside of that. Anyway .. please choose wisely for your first attempt.

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AND .. I cannot over stress .. the shorter you keep it .. the easier it will be !!!

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Also .. the next step is where it starts getting right down MESSY. If I'm lucky .. I'll get mine epoxied together tomorrow. And I'll include plenty of pics ..because.. this is where it gets "interesting" !!!

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Enjoy

D ale

Jan Carter said:

OK, he is actively working on what to use for the pin. I think the first few will be a team effort. I am interested in being able to do this myself

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 4, 2017 at 11:41

EPOXY

I stated in the last step that for the final assembly .. the 1/4” OD tube would be filled with epoxy ..&.. that I would explain later. I do this to insure that there are no air bubbles in the final product. It is disheartening to go to all this work .. only to find air bubbles in the final product when it is either cut down to size ..or.. being polished flush with scales / bolsters / whatever it is being used with.

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An alternate approach is to assemble the mosaic pin .. dry. Then .. apply a vacuum & draw the adhesive into & through the pin. I have tried that method. I have found that the adhesive does NOT flow evenly through the assembled mosaic pin. Specifically .. the adhesive does NOT flow through the smaller orifices as readily as it flows through the larger ones. I even pulled an excess of adhesive through the finished pin .. forced the excess back through the pin ..&.. then redrew it through the pin. The result was still cavities of air inside the finished product.

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IF .. one is using a clear adhesive .. these holes can be reasonably hidden by filling in later. Superglue is commonly used to conceal this flaw. However .. when using an adhesive that is NOT clear .. the flaw is not so easy to disguise. Exact color matches are … difficult. That is the reason I do it the way I do.

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The method I have come to use is to begin by filling the outermost pin ...in this example .. the 1/4” OD brass pin... with adhesive. Then .. as each successive smaller pin is <slowly> inserted .. the adhesive is forced into & up through the newest sub-component being inserted in the assembly process.

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!!!! .. it is messy .. !!!

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However, I have not experienced air bubbles ..or.. cavities within the finished product absent of

adhesive.

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For adhesive .. I use 2 part epoxy .. of the 60 minute variety. I would NOT suggest anything with a shorter cure time. Even if you have practiced the dry assembly & are capable of complete assembly of the Mosaic pin in under 5 minutes .. it will take you longer when there’s epoxy involved. SO0o .. please .. do not consider any adhesive with a shorter than 60 minute cure time.

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I once attempted fabrication of a very very simplistic mosaic pin. SO0o simplistic .. I doubt it even qualifies as “mosaic”. I figured I could get away with the gel type extended time (15 sec) super glue. OK .. given the simplicity of the pin involved ..&.. the fact that I’d have the components already started into one another .. 15 seconds .. no problem.

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Exact same pin .. magnified 50X.

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I keep the result on my desk as a constant reminder .. use the 60 minute cure time version of adhesive.

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Alright .. there is some prep time involved in getting set up for this step. SO0o .. I’ll be doing that. I will try to snap some good pics of critical steps .. etc. ..&.. hope to post a result this afternoon.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 4, 2017 at 18:17

ASSEMBLY

Given my chosen method of assembly there is an advantage to the adhesive having a relatively thin viscosity. There are a # of ways of “thinning” epoxy. Most result in a reduction of the adhesive characteristics. Except .. for heating it.

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I chose to use J B Weld .. because of its color. I felt the darker color would enhance the aesthetics of the resulting mosaic pin. However .. J B Weld is not a thin product. SO0o .. I found a small sauce pan that will NEVER be used for anything else again. I filled it ¾ full of water & brought that to a boil. I then removed it from the stove & dropped in the 2 tubes of J B Weld .. where it soaked for a minimum of ½ an hour.

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I spent that ½ hour thoroughly preparing for the final process. This is NOT a process where one wishes to discover half way through that one had forgotten something. There is epoxy setting up by that time !!!

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I attached a syringe to the 1/4” brass tube in preparation for drawing the epoxy into the tube. I had also covered the outside of the 1/4” brass tube with a layer of masking tape to protect it from the epoxy. The large amount of tape midway in the tube is to facilitate clamping it in the vise. I’ve organized the individual components so that I’ll not be searching for them or sorting them out as the epoxy is curing. I‘ve also collected a small diameter but ~ 2” deep disposable container in which I will mix the epoxy. The choice of dimensions is to facilitate making it easier to draw the epoxy into the 1/4” dia brass tube.

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The ¼” brass tube is full of J B weld & affixed in the vise. The individual components are sorted & ready to begin assembly. NOTE: I taped the bottom of the 1/4” brass tube shut with masking tape .. 4 layers of it. Turns out .. I should have used something more secure ..such as .. duct tape. ALSO .. insure there is something solid underneath the 1/4” brass tube.

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I’ve taped a napkin around the top of the tube ..because.. as I insert the components .. the epoxy will be forced out the top. It should also be forced up into & out the top of each (hollow) component that is inserted in the assembly process.

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Well .. this is it. ‘taint pretty at the moment ..but.. I think it has potential. The J B Weld has a 6~8 hr cure time ..SO0o.. by tomorrow when the epoxy is fully cured & I have the opportunity to finish one of the ends .. I’ll polish up the ends & post some pics.

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I’d noted earlier that I had sealed the bottom of the brass tube with scotch tape ..&.. probably should have used something more secure. As one can see above .. some of the epoxy escaped out the bottom. Also, toward the end .. the J B Weld started thickening up & I had to use some force to get all the components fully inserted into the overall unit. In fact .. I had to use the smallest brass hammer that I have available ..AND.. that made me nervous. Extremely nervous. I had ZERO extra parts made up ahead of time. Besides .. that likely would not have helped anyways.

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In closing for the night .. I will say this .. no more 3” pins. Going forward .. I’ll measure what I need .. add on about a 20% safety margin ..&.. limit the overall length to that !!!!

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I'll post some decent pics of the result .. when I get them.

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Enjoy

D ale

Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on April 4, 2017 at 19:13

I like the choice of the JB Weld, Dale.  It should add the color that you want as well as it will polish up better.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 4, 2017 at 19:34

I managed a pic.

A bit on the early side ..since.. the J B Weld is far from "set up".

... But ...

provides a decent idea of what the final result should polish out to be.

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I'm pleased with this one .. real pleased.

And you're right, JJ.

The grey/ black background helps contrast the metal.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 5, 2017 at 9:10

After the J-B Weld cured overnight I sanded the ends down & polished them up.

Enough such that taking a decent picture was a challenge.

The overall length .. after trimming & dressing up .. measures 2.826".

Never say never ..but.. it'll take some doing to get me to make another one this long.

Granted .. a thinner adhesive would have helped tremendously.

...   ...   ...   nonetheless   ...   ...   ...

Going forward .. I'll measure the minimum required .. add a 20% safety margin .. and build from there.

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What I've presented is simply the procedure which I've found to work the best for me.

If anyone is aware of an easier approach .. please chime in.

Very seriously .. if anyone has working suggestions that can / will simplify the procedure I've presented .. do us all a favor.

That is what the comments section is all about..

Thank you !!

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Enjoy

D ale

Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on April 5, 2017 at 9:24

Great tutorial, Dale.
The end result is definitely a nice lookin' pin.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 5, 2017 at 10:00

!!! . Thanks, JJ . !!!

J.J. Smith III said:

Great tutorial, Dale.
The end result is definitely a nice lookin' pin.

Permalink Reply by allanm on April 5, 2017 at 14:08

Now you have me inspired to consider trying some day as well Dale, very helpful advice and steps to prepare

I was getting ready to ask what adhesive, guessing epoxy when I realized there was a 2nd / Next page link at the bottom. :-)

Your example here already has me beginning to think how I could potentially use fired brass from ammo in a knife for a friend I refer to as my adopted redneck brother. He proudly tells everyone he has been transforming me into a redneck since I had hunted small game in Africa, and he got me started on deer, with a trip to family land in Arkansas. He's a former Airborne Ranger / special forces guy retired out after 20 years, so anything with used brass would be even more meaningful to him.

Just thinking for example, how practical could I use 5.56 brass cut off, just a few millimeters with the base and the primer for example, cut down and embedded in both sides as a decoration.

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 5, 2017 at 18:13

Allanm,
I am excited about your idea for making the pins for him. Please share them when you get that project going. I know it would mean a great deal to him

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 5, 2017 at 18:17

D ale,

That pin was worth it!!  I know I am inspired now

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 6, 2017 at 12:57

allanm

I think using the end of a fired brass round as a shield would be an excellent & very doable project.

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!!!!!  ...  also .. cool as all get out  ...  !!!!!

It would add a personalized factor the he could literally not obtain anywhere else.

The braggin' rights alone would make it downright amazing !!

I highly recommend you pursue the idea

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One of my other hobbies that I share with my 3 brothers is reloading. As such .. I can tell you that a brass rifle casing for a center fire round is kinda bowl shaped in the interior at the bottom .. the primer end. In other words .. it is going to be tougher to cut a few mm up from the primer end than it would be ..say.. 5~6 mm up from the primer end & then sand the result down to the desired height.

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A 5.56 is the military version of a std .223 cartridge .. commonly used for varmint hunting .. which I just happen to own .. a couple of. I'm holding one in my hands right now measuring it. I can tell you that the primer end of the cartridge measures 0.373" (9.49mm) in dia. 5mm up from the base .. that's tapered down to 9.40mm. It further tapers down to 8.85mm right before you hit the neck of the cartridge. My point being .. cutting the case using the same method I used for round tubing would NOT work well. i.e. it's tapered & will not roll straight. By the time the cartridge makes a complete revolution .. the knife blade will likely NOT be in the same place it started. I would suggest chucking a spent cartridge up in a drill vise & using a file or hack saw blade to cut the cartridge ..or.. clamping a spent cartridge in a vice & sawing the end of the spent cartridge off. AND .. I'd highly advise doing 3~4 while you're at it. That will provide you the luxury pf screwing up 1 or 2.

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NOTE: When I state "spent cartridge" .. I mean one that's been shot .. has NO bullet and NO powder in it !!!

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You'll eventually need to create a hole in the scale material where you intend to place the ends of these casings that is 0.374" (about 9.50mm) in dia. That will be a tight press fit. It's also not a std drill bit size. You may therefor need to go with the closest fit oversize & use some "colored" epoxy.

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BUT .. THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER DISCUSSION,

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.... and .. I'd do it !!!

allanm said:

... how I could potentially use fired brass from ammo in a knife for a friend ...

Just thinking for example, how practical could I use 5.56 brass cut off, just a few millimeters with the base and the primer for example, cut down and embedded in both sides as a decoration.

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