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Measures that may be brought in later in the year mean that although we will be able to buy knives online they will need to be collected from the retailer personally?

Now I haven't bought a knife from Greg at TSA for a while mostly because I have been spending my money on straight razors. Also, the £ has dropped 20% since Brexit was announced which makes purchases from the States just too expensive with shipping and taxes.

This proposed legislation, however, means that I would have to travel to Detroit Lakes, so that Greg could check that I am over 18, and pick up my purchases in person. That could make the next GEC rather too much trouble, I guess that is the point!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/18/plans-to-make-deliv...

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Due to a rash of very negative comments from the knife community (who likes being called a Coward??) they have pulled the social media post showing that box...LOL. And according to the article, they are even asking folks to throw out some of their kitchen knives! 

I did enjoy some of those negative comments Manx. The powers that be at least here in the UK are more concerned with being seen to be doing something rather than thinking of ways to stop criminal behaviour. So these bins are dotted around the place and various strange people hand in kitchen knives and heaven knows what else. This to the gullible appears a good thing," getting knives off the streets" therefore avoiding others being murdered !!!

It seems to sound plausible to a lot of my countrymen who would be quite taken aback to think that anyone would disagree with this aim. It is better to never overestimate the intelligence of the Great British Public, who now know very little about knives and instinctively distrust anyone who "carries a knife".

I have seen a number of police "reality" shows based out of the US, Canada and the UK, and the one thing I notice is that most knife crimes are being committed with kitchen knives and machetes. The easiest and cheapest knives available. It seems like a losing battle trying to eradicate knives when they are so easy to obtain from any department store or home kitchen. Picking on the folders and collector knives strikes me as pointless. From the look of things, most thugs can't afford a "real" knife. Restricting knife shipments to residents is like closing the gate after the cows got out. Anyone and their dog can go to a store and buy a paring knife, or a whole arsenal in a box (kitchen knife set) without ID or license or what-have-you. Must admit, I do not see the logic behind what they are trying to accomplish. 

Very well put Manx it's just as you say.

Many governments have taken the old adage "perception is everything" to heart.  They have just forgotten how to use real common sense

Man this is just st so stupid. Governments refuse to admit that they are the problem. They always start out with good intentions but when stuff gets all fouled up they can't admit they've just made stuff worse.
What I want to know is how a "16 year old" has a credit or debit card to order ANYTHING online.
I thought you had to be at least 18 to get either.

Good read!

Heinnie Haynes’ Response to the Home Secretary’s Announcement

On July 18th, 2017, the Home Secretary announced her intention to tighten the law in order to stop under 18s being able to purchase knives. The proposed measures would mean anyone who bought a knife online would be required to collect it in person, with retailers responsible for checking the age of all buyers.

These measures, if enacted, would of course have a huge impact on our business. Heinnie Haynes® is the UK’s largest online retailer of knives and their accessories.

We’ve been trading online since 1996, and from the beginning, we’ve taken our social responsibility extremely seriously. When you’ve shopped with us, you’ll have noticed that we won’t sell a knife to anyone under the age of 18 years. We check out ages by reference to a number of sources, or by asking the customer to supply us with proof of age. This means that we have to occasionally turn away orders. We will not sell a knife to any person aged under 18.

The new offences would mean knives “could no longer be delivered to private property, making it harder for underage sales to go undetected”. Clearly, this would have an impact on us as an online business. Unless every customer was able to make the trek to the hallowed corner of a Barry industrial estate that is the home of Heinnie Haynes, our sales of knives would effectively cease overnight.

We are concerned that the proposed new offences will do little to curb the sale of knives to the under-18’s. We’ve seen over the years that the requirement for face-to-face age verification is not a panacea for the legal sale of knives. It is already illegal to sell most knives to under 18’s, but test purchases by Trading Standards, as well as the Met’s Operation Sceptre show that despite the current law prohibiting sale, it’s still possible for children to purchase knives in “bricks & mortar” stores. By making “bricks & mortar” the only channel for purchasing a knife will not solve the problem.

By removing the UK’s online knife market, the government is unlikely to stop citizens buying knives online. We recognise that it’s entirely possible for an individual to purchase knives from overseas and import them into the UK themselves.  Any new law will not impact the ability to ship into the UK of those companies based overseas.

Here at Heinnie Haynes, we’re fortunate to be able to handle some of the most sought-after knives available to the collector and the outdoorsman. Our range is vast, and is made possible by our ability to send our products around the UK. It is simply not practical to expect this range to be available in a single store, or chain, which is available to the majority of the UK population to visit in person.

We welcome and support the efforts of the UK government to control the scourge that is knife crime, which has no place in our society. However, we contend that banning the sale of knives online would only serve to drive sales underground.

There are several ways in which knife sales online can be regulated, and we offer our support to the Government in working on new legislation that would prevent the sale of knives to minors without preventing the legitimate sale of knives to the collector, the outdoorsman and serious customer.

If you have a point of view on this matter, we’d be grateful if you could channel your energy into contacting your local MP, who is best placed to pass your view on to the Home Secretary. You can find your MP using this link:

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

Heinnie Haynes
July 2017

 

I know John Bamford has had some difficulty logging into iKC.  I am working with NING to correct it if we can, coming into a knife site with your FB sign in from the UK is in need of adjustment I am afraid.

John started this discussion with some info he and Greg Holmes at TSA had discussed so I am feeling pretty good about sharing with you Greg's latest Blog.  I certainly could not have said this any better myself.  

Just one short week ago I posted a note about the murder rate in London which I felt would be the impetus for new and even tougher knife laws.  This is one time I really hate to be right.  Take a moment to read the article in the Daily Wire.

I don’t profess to have any real knowledge of the legal system in the UK or the what the will of the the UK citizenry is regarding this crack down.  What I do know is this has the appearance of another politician bending to the will of an emotional demand that something be done in response to a horrible situation.  Logic be damned.

First the London Mayor bends to the will of the minority by earlier restricting the stop and frisk policy for fear of offending a minority group.  Now, he not only reverses this stance but tweets out:

Mayor of London

 

✔@MayorofLondon

 

No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law.

Seriously….”...there is never a reason to carry a knife.”  Lets extend that logic and cut down the number of deaths by drunk drivers and say ” there’s never a reason to be able to purchase, consume or possess more then a single 12 oz can of beer each day”.   And when we talk about stop and frisk laws being discriminatory, if it’s determined a rash of crimes are being committed by short, obese, red haired, older white men with a limp…. PROFILE THEM ALL!!

What should further scare the  entire UK populous is the following:  “The U.K. government is expected to introduce a ban on online knife sales and home knife deliveries, declare it “illegal to possess zombie knives and knuckledusters in private” — “zombie knives” are those defined as being manufactured for the purpose of being used as a person-to-person weapon..”

Does this proposal infer that you can possess a “zombie” knife in public but not in private?  And what in the hell defines a “person-to-person weapon”?  Fair warning to our British friends, that phrase “person-to-person weapon” is about as nebulous as the definition of an “assault rifle”.  It would seem to this simple mind that if the blade points away from me and toward you, that’s person to person.

Banning online knife sales and home deliveries is nothing short of amazing.   So if you live in the countryside and you want to buy your wife a new $10 bread knife from Switzerland, your only option will be to drive 20, 30, 40 miles to a store selling Swiss made bread knives.  I would further assume you’ll have to purchase some sort of secure carry case that can be closed, locked and placed in an area of the vehicle which isn’t readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.  And most probably apply for an import permit.

And while the pols are at it, why not pass some sort of licensing/permit requirement.  Maybe 8-10 hours of knife safety training.  Another 8-10 hours of legal counseling explaining the rights and limitations of knife ownership.  Further regulate how sharp you can keep your knives.  Possibly require a locked drawer in the kitchen where you store them.  Better yet, have some sort of central government storage facility to keep your larger kitchen knives secure and only release them to you for the holidays or special occasion under close monitoring.  And of course, regulate how many knives you can purchase each year.

I have absolutely no doubt the miscreants currently creating mayhem with knives will immediately comply with all elements of the new laws.  Beam me up Scotty, there’s no intelligent life down here.

While I make these comments tongue in cheek it’s not a laughing matter.  We saw a ban on switchblade knives in a knee jerk reaction to a Broadway play decades ago.  Today, we have the gang members of MS-13 gaining notoriety for using knives and machetes to murder and mutilate their victims.  I’ll predict it’s a matter of time and we’ll see tougher knife laws revisited in the US to “combat crime”.

This past week we heard about the city of Deerfield, IL, pass a law banning the sale or possession of the dreaded “assault weapon” and large capacity magazines within the city.  Failure to surrender said weapon will result in a $1000 per DAY fine.  My read of the law says that would include my old Remington .22 with a ‘fixed’ tube magazine that will hold around 12 rounds of 22 shorts.

And just about the time I’m getting my blood pressure under control, I read the headline about gun control fanatic New York Mayor DeBlasio’s top aide getting arrested for possession ....  Any bets this “high level Deputy Director” gets to walk?  I’m sure it was just a ‘mistake’ and of course someone in her high level of responsibility is exempt from this type of prosecution.   People of wealth, power and position need not be concerned.

John, my friend…. good luck to you.  I’d encourage you to move to this side of the Atlantic but I’m afraid we’re on the same slippery slope here.

original article is here

Just one question. Who the hell is gonna take a $300 knife and commit a crime?? If you are going to plan to off someone, you're going to grab a cheap paring or chef's knife from whatever big-box store and be done. Collectors aren't likely to say "I respect this guy I hate so much I want to kill enough to use my collector's Randall to stab him." And above all...tool vs weapon.

And above all...tool vs weapon.

In my opinion that is the key.  Educating the public about the value of a knife as a tool.  Even as I type that it seems so silly.  We were all brought up to respect the tool, somewhere along the line it became a political tool.  Apparently the politicians are the only people using this tool these days, for political gain.  Not a lick of common sense with any of them, either ours, theirs, Russias...the country matters not.  They are all without enough sense to get out of the rain



Jan Carter said:

I know John Bamford has had some difficulty logging into iKC.  I am working with NING to correct it if we can, coming into a knife site with your FB sign in from the UK is in need of adjustment I am afraid.

John started this discussion with some info he and Greg Holmes at TSA had discussed so I am feeling pretty good about sharing with you Greg's latest Blog.  I certainly could not have said this any better myself.  

Just one short week ago I posted a note about the murder rate in London which I felt would be the impetus for new and even tougher knife laws.  This is one time I really hate to be right.  Take a moment to read the article in the Daily Wire.

I don’t profess to have any real knowledge of the legal system in the UK or the what the will of the the UK citizenry is regarding this crack down.  What I do know is this has the appearance of another politician bending to the will of an emotional demand that something be done in response to a horrible situation.  Logic be damned.

First the London Mayor bends to the will of the minority by earlier restricting the stop and frisk policy for fear of offending a minority group.  Now, he not only reverses this stance but tweets out:

Mayor of London

 

✔@MayorofLondon

 

No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law.

Seriously….”...there is never a reason to carry a knife.”  Lets extend that logic and cut down the number of deaths by drunk drivers and say ” there’s never a reason to be able to purchase, consume or possess more then a single 12 oz can of beer each day”.   And when we talk about stop and frisk laws being discriminatory, if it’s determined a rash of crimes are being committed by short, obese, red haired, older white men with a limp…. PROFILE THEM ALL!!

What should further scare the  entire UK populous is the following:  “The U.K. government is expected to introduce a ban on online knife sales and home knife deliveries, declare it “illegal to possess zombie knives and knuckledusters in private” — “zombie knives” are those defined as being manufactured for the purpose of being used as a person-to-person weapon..”

Does this proposal infer that you can possess a “zombie” knife in public but not in private?  And what in the hell defines a “person-to-person weapon”?  Fair warning to our British friends, that phrase “person-to-person weapon” is about as nebulous as the definition of an “assault rifle”.  It would seem to this simple mind that if the blade points away from me and toward you, that’s person to person.

Banning online knife sales and home deliveries is nothing short of amazing.   So if you live in the countryside and you want to buy your wife a new $10 bread knife from Switzerland, your only option will be to drive 20, 30, 40 miles to a store selling Swiss made bread knives.  I would further assume you’ll have to purchase some sort of secure carry case that can be closed, locked and placed in an area of the vehicle which isn’t readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.  And most probably apply for an import permit.

And while the pols are at it, why not pass some sort of licensing/permit requirement.  Maybe 8-10 hours of knife safety training.  Another 8-10 hours of legal counseling explaining the rights and limitations of knife ownership.  Further regulate how sharp you can keep your knives.  Possibly require a locked drawer in the kitchen where you store them.  Better yet, have some sort of central government storage facility to keep your larger kitchen knives secure and only release them to you for the holidays or special occasion under close monitoring.  And of course, regulate how many knives you can purchase each year.

I have absolutely no doubt the miscreants currently creating mayhem with knives will immediately comply with all elements of the new laws.  Beam me up Scotty, there’s no intelligent life down here.

While I make these comments tongue in cheek it’s not a laughing matter.  We saw a ban on switchblade knives in a knee jerk reaction to a Broadway play decades ago.  Today, we have the gang members of MS-13 gaining notoriety for using knives and machetes to murder and mutilate their victims.  I’ll predict it’s a matter of time and we’ll see tougher knife laws revisited in the US to “combat crime”.

This past week we heard about the city of Deerfield, IL, pass a law banning the sale or possession of the dreaded “assault weapon” and large capacity magazines within the city.  Failure to surrender said weapon will result in a $1000 per DAY fine.  My read of the law says that would include my old Remington .22 with a ‘fixed’ tube magazine that will hold around 12 rounds of 22 shorts.

And just about the time I’m getting my blood pressure under control, I read the headline about gun control fanatic New York Mayor DeBlasio’s top aide getting arrested for possession ....  Any bets this “high level Deputy Director” gets to walk?  I’m sure it was just a ‘mistake’ and of course someone in her high level of responsibility is exempt from this type of prosecution.   People of wealth, power and position need not be concerned.

John, my friend…. good luck to you.  I’d encourage you to move to this side of the Atlantic but I’m afraid we’re on the same slippery slope here.

original article is here

This was my reply to Greg's post,

Greg, it’s just sad, isn’t it?
There was an attempted burglary the other day the burglars were armed with a screwdriver apparently, stop and search wouldn’t work on that one I guess. Well, the twist here is that whilst one of the felons kept the householder downstairs the other one went upstairs to see what could be stolen, then the owner of the house turned the tables on the thief took the screwdriver and stabbed the villain to death. No knife in sight, the house owner was arrested and charged with the murder of course.
The ban on online knife sales is because that way there will be no way that youngsters will be able to get their hands on knives, do you believe that will happen? Just like children can’t get access to alcohol or drugs or tobacco. Firearms laws are very strict here but villains still get access to guns and people are shot, just like the young girl who was killed in London last week.
There was a guy on the radio today saying that stop and search was unfair because “middle-aged white ladies are never chosen” I guess when gangs of old ladies start mugging people in the street then they may be picked on for stop and search.
The main problem I think is that these days in the UK a knife means a weapon, the Mayor of London would very likely never had a pocket knife or indeed the use for one. When he hears the word knife it conjures up visions of Crocodile Dundee, or a machete-wielding thug. When they think of knives bought over the internet then the impression is of a sinister weapon rather than a Fallkniven or a GEC pocket knife, because they have never seen or heard of either of them.
Personally, I see no way back from this situation because there are far too few of us who have a legitimate interest in, or knowledge of, good quality, useful and still just about legal knives.

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