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Comment by Shlomo ben Maved on September 13, 2011 at 14:22

Comment by Alexander Noot 

Shlomo, do you have a source for this? Or is this all assumptions. Because from speaking to  people who actually do buisiness with the Chinese they claim that this is not true.

Just because you live in the US doesn't make you a democrat, just because I live in the Netherlands doesn't make me a socialist, just because someone lives in China doesn't make them a communist. It only makes them compliant with local laws.

The only sources that I have are my doctor, my oncologist, two neighbours, a niece's husband, a couple dozen friends, about half of my wife's university class that she teaches all who have fled China (mainly Hong Kong) and for the most part still have relatives remaining.

There is private ownership, per se, in China--they had to grant some to the Hong Kong and Macau citizens who had been dealing with the occidentals for over a hundred years, B U T, and it's a huge but, any business can be taken away from a "subversive element(s)" (their words not mine) and "given or allocated" to someone else at any time.

You're a Low Lander, a Netherlander because you're in Holland, I'm a Canuck since I live in Canada and a citizen living in the USA is a Yankee...In Holland you have the right to choose whether you wish to be PvdA (Social Democrat), D66, CDA, VVD or anything else...In Canada I can be a Liberal, a Conservative or a New Democrat (Social Democrat), which I am, or another party if I so choose just as in the USA you're either a Democrat or a Republican or something else and in all of them you have the choice of being a Communist as well, not so in China though, where there is but one party (of different factions [mostly degree of hard line/right wing] but all still Communist)...Same as what was in the former Soviet Union and still remains in North Korea and Vietnam for the most part.

See: Wiki--List of political parties in the People's Republic of China

The dominance over the political system is such that China is effectively a single party state.  This means that only one political party, the CPC, holds effective power at the national level. Eight minor parties also participate in the political system under the leadership of the major party. The PRC political system allows for the participation of some non-party members and minor parties in the National People's Congress (NPC) but they are vetted by the CPC.

The same thing will happen there as did in the USSR when capitalism finally wins out and it will...I give it at best five more years and at worst ten more years until the "Maphia" takes over, starts selling off all their military equipment since they will need foreign hard currency to prosper and business brokers, will enough bribe connections will take over the business world...I'll bet you five gilder on it or a kilo of Douwe Egberts ground coffee!

 

 

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 13, 2011 at 7:59

lol...lol

Comment by Alexander Noot on September 13, 2011 at 1:22

Sorry, me boyo, but if the item is made in mainland China or Hong Kong then they are "Chi-Comm" and they are run by good communists--or they wouldn't be in business...There is no "Free Enterprise" system in communist countries and everything is owned by the state and that includes McDonald's, Coca Cola and Frito Lays...All the capitalists fled before 1999 to Western Canada and the USA.

Schlomo, do you have a source for this? Or is this all assumptions. Because from speaking to  people who actually do buisiness with the chinese they claim that this is not true.

Just because you live in the US doesn't make you a democrat, just because I live in the Netherlands doesn't make me a socialist, just because someone lives in China doesn't make them a communist. It only makes them compliant with local laws.

Comment by Billy Oneale on September 12, 2011 at 22:25

Lots of good info and views posted here. If the USA economy sunk and went bankrupt, it would suck the Chinese right down the tube also. They would lose one of the major purchasers of their products. I'm not talking about just knives either.

Comment by Shlomo ben Maved on September 12, 2011 at 21:53

Comment by Don 

as I see it and remember it, the SAME arguments were present in the early 50's against JAPAN.

Sorry, but the hatred to Japan had to do with a certain incident called Pearl Harbour on the 7th of December, 1941, the Bataan Death March and the POW camps and a little thing called World War II.

Same as lots of people wouldn't buy anything from Germany, Austria or Bavaria (and Italy by association) due to the atrocities performed by the Gestapo, SS and Wehrmacht in places like Poland, Finland, Norway, Russia, bombing London, England, the POW camps and of course the "Death Camps" that murdered some ten+ million people all told, six million of whom where Jews and over one million Germans.

 

 

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 12, 2011 at 18:51

Shlomo, thanks so much for the info, I try not buy too much from China but lets not condemn the businesses that are forced to compete on this world market and offer merchandise from a few places we would rather forget. If there is a way to tell China's products from good to bad, we would like to hear about it.

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 12, 2011 at 18:38

By request:

September, 2011

 

    Many of my friends and customers are wondering, some out loud and some only to themselves, why A. G. Russell has given up the fight and is having knives produced in China.

    The simplest and most basic answer to that question is "to stay in business". With the bankruptcy of Schrade and Camillus, and the loss of Arrowhead, any hope I had of continuing to make any substantial volume of my designs in the United States was gone.

    I took a new trapper design to Germany and they returned a quote of $50,000 for tooling plus a cost of $75 per knife. These costs make it simply impossible to produce my designs in Germany. We have created two very special, traditional slip joint knives in Japan during the past couple of years. The quality of those knives is unbelievable for a "production" knife, well worth the $150-$175 that we must charge. But at this price level I find it hard to sell enough to cover the cost of the space in the catalog.

    Like so many of my customers, I have railed against the movement of the Cutlery Industry to China, BUT it because obvious that if I wanted to stay in business I would have to produce more and more of my own designs and find a way to offer those knifes at prices my customers would pay. The only answer was to find one or more makers in Taiwan and China that I could teach to make the quality I require. I was fortunate - I had a customer in China who loves American handmade knives. He also owns a small knife factory in Taiwan and another in China with access to others. He chose a factory to produce our first Chinese-made knife, the Beak. After three or four samples and a lot of work back and fourth, we had a fantastic knife at a reasonable price.

    In the 1980s, when I moved production of my designs to Japan, after I lost Hen & Rooster in Germany, I got hundreds of letters, some of them really nasty, even threatening. We continued, and the resistance faded as people began to recognize the quality and value of those knives. Once again I am getting that resistance from people who do not like the way their would has changed. All I can say is that no matter how much I resisted, the world has changed. I cannot change it back. Some people cannot bear to own a knife made in China, some cannot bear to own a knife made outside of the U.S. I understand this. Unfortunately, I cannot solve the problem. The choices are high prices or "Made in China". The quality we are offering is fantastic; as good as, or better than, can be found anywhere today, U.S.A. or not.

    all the best,

    A.G. Russel

Comment by Shlomo ben Maved on September 12, 2011 at 18:26

Comment by Alexander Noot 

I think the knifemakers in the far east are as well deserving of our attention as any in other places in the world.

 

The companies that make these knives are not "Chi-Comm" companies. They're not government owned and are run by people who simply want to run a good buisiness. They happen to be in China. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Sorry, me boyo, but if the item is made in mainland China or Hong Kong then they are "Chi-Comm" and they are run by good communists--or they wouldn't be in business...There is no "Free Enterprise" system in communist countries and everything is owned by the state and that includes McDonald's, Coca Cola and Frito Lays...All the capitalists fled before 1999 to Western Canada and the USA.

The same applies to a company making goods in the USA owned solely by a Japanese or South Korean or Italian or German or Austrian or Belgium parent company being able to add the label "Made in the USA" to their products--think Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, HK, Glock, Beretta, SIG, FN et cetera, etc.

I'll state this again, the products are not bad (for the most part) coming out of Communist China excluding the rip off companies but you have those in the USA as well.  When they change their practices I'll buy from them and they will in a few years when capitalism wins over their "hearts and minds" and especially their pocketbooks...Just as it finally did to the USSR in the 1990s.

 

One thing that you're all forgetting here--this only applies to SOME of his knives not ALL--there are other models available from Germany and Taiwan and Japan that can be purchased.

 

Comment by Robert Burris 

It must be a very lucky man that can shop in our stores today and avoid buying products from China. Everything from tooth brushes to clothes, shoes and gear of all kinds. 

 

Robert, with a little due diligence you can quite easily avoid buying "Chi-Comm" made products--just read the labels as by law the country of origin has to be noted somewhere.

 

 

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 12, 2011 at 9:21

It must be a very lucky man that can shop in our stores today and avoid buying products from China. Everything from tooth brushes to clothes, shoes and gear of all kinds. I recently bought some hunting gear bags from one of the biggest outdoor distributors on the planet and the very best brand offered. When it arrived to my surprise, you guessed it, Made in China. The knives coming from China have improved over the last few years. China and their knives are not going away, for a company to compete in todays terrible economy it must not close off ways to compete with competetors. Until the countries of the world come together an force China into rating its currency correctly, they will always beable to under cut prices of other nations. A tariff on Chinesse goods might help. I think Mr. AG, was just addressing this problem in the knife market and he certainly didn't have to for larger distributors of Chinese knives have sat quite while racking in the profits.

Comment by Alexander Noot on September 12, 2011 at 4:30

I think the knifemakers in the far east are as well deserving of our attention as any in other places in the world.

 

Mr. Russell has shown (as have Rough Rider knives) that excellent quality can be made there.

 

The companies that make these knives are not "Chi-Comm" companies. They're not government owned and are run by people who simply want to run a good buisiness. They happen to be in China. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

 

Anyway. I'll be sending an order towards A.G. Russells sometime next month so that my parents can bring me home the new Texas Ranger knife when they're over there on holiday (thus saving me a whole lot of €€€ on shipping and import duties).

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