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Counterfeit Cutlery, Have you been a victim ?

I would guess any collector that aquires a collection over time has surley been plauged by the Conterfeiter 

I know I have, has this happend to you? If so tell me about it, show me the picture if you have it 

Sometimes you are victim and dont know that you are ...

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Tags: Counterfeiting, iKc, iknifecollector.com, knives

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In Memoriam
Comment by Terry Ray on January 23, 2014 at 19:33

Thanks Rick, lots of good learning from those two links , BE CAREFUL !! 

Comment by Rick Hooper on January 23, 2014 at 18:45

I was looking at the latest ebay auctions, and found this beautiful CASE BRADFORD pruner, the bone in a knockout and the blade looks to be made yesterday! Now look closely at the tang stamp, and the tang itself. CASE made stainless knife in the TESTED era, but in this pattern?!  http://www.ebay.com/itm/EX-1905-1914-CASE-BRADFORD-XX-61011-4-Green... Now looking at this auction for ,a later made Tested pruner, which one looks original?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-40-CASE-TESTED-XX-61011-Beautiful-Gree... I love the BRADFORD pruner, but personally would rather have a CASE CLASSIC coke bottle in green bone,...and a stamped date.


In Memoriam
Comment by Terry Ray on January 23, 2014 at 18:43

So someone help m,e to know mine LOL always open for knowledge!


In Memoriam
Comment by Terry Ray on January 23, 2014 at 18:43

I agree Rick, no doubt the Case Classic's left a open for the Counterfeiter, I remeber when a Case Classic was hard to sell. Collectors just didnt take to them some considered them not real Case products. So you have a new

generation of collectors that are blind to this KNOW YOUR KNIVES!

Comment by Rick Hooper on January 23, 2014 at 16:40

I agree, Sue, the Case Classic pen blades are unmarked as for the date. Cheaters are removing them and replacing the blades in original Case Tested knives.So you end up with a knife having a carbon steel master blade and stainless pen blades, with CASE TESTED XX stamp. I posted a subject along these same lines, in Vintage American Knives group a couple days ago. With the Case family knives were re-issued in the 1990's by Jim Parker. The blade was etched with GERMANY, so buyers could see they were a second generation offering! Now that GERMANY was removed , many are passed as original 1880-1920 era pocket knives. What I have seen is a certain brand comes out , looking like a Case, Remington or Winchester, about every ten years, which are then restamped with these "good" brand. In the 50's and 60's, it was solid bolster kutmaster, Ulster, Kent, and Imperial. Later the Parker-Frost line was restamped, in the 90's , it was Bear Hunter,  in the 2000's Cowan Creek and Rough Riders were restamped. Smooth bone was jigged to look like Rogers bone, or Case jigging. The latest brand, has been to take the new marbles line, of sheath and pocketknives and age them. Also Chinese import PUMA stockman, are etched with old logos, to look like the costly 1960-70's green box model.  I saw one of each at  the big flea market in the Smokies. I spend 4 hour hours , looking at tang stamps at the national museum, but several good guide books are available. To quote the Sargent from Hill Street Blues, "Be careful out there!"  

Comment by Sue OldsWidow on January 23, 2014 at 15:40

We have bought a few"Sets" we call them when they are counterfeit knives...But since then lots of knowledge has been gained by hands on experience and many books and the knowledge such as handle materials for the era along with types of blades for the era...being aware of what a cold stamp tang looks like and how the script should be on tang stamps look when real and unreal...knowing if the knife has been taken apart is one red flag for all collectors to keep an eye out for , proper shrinkage of handle materials, types of metal used for blades and the "special grinds" that shouldn't be on a specific era knife....There is lots of variations that are red flags for the seasoned collector and for the upcoming collector beware and learn your stuff on what you are collecting. 

My personal opinion of the Case Classic's they are well made knives, but I think they were made in a fashion that they can be altered easily enough to fool the new collector into thinking they have a antique knife, so make sure it has a date on it for the CC knives. we also bought ours from JIm Parker and also from some dealers that dealt with him for their supply so feel they are as true as they could be. 

Knowledge of the brand you collect is an absolute must.....The more INPUT you have the better you are at staying Happy in the field of Knife collecting...................

p.s If you do get a "Set" LEARN from it, resale the knives as what they are fake and MOVE FORWARD !

Thanks

Sue

Comment by Mike Bryant on January 22, 2014 at 21:44

Yes I bought a couple of Counterfeits when I first started collecting. I did not try to collect the CASE Tested or XX  because of the Prices and also because of the Counterfeiting that goes on with them.

 I started with the 65-69 era mint condition.  Can you believe some one counterfeited a 6347 pattern Case XX USA 65-69 Era?    Well they did and I bought it early on, BUT I didn't keep it I returned it to the seller went through all the Hoop Jumping that ebay required and got my money back.  The other one I bought was suppose to be a used  XX Trapper when i got it It was Junk it was returned.

After those instances I bought off ebay but studied the Books and if a knife didn't look right, I Passed. I got some good deals due to bad photos but you had to be carefull or you would get taken.  Their were Dealers on ebay that I would not bid on their knives because they shill bided  each others auctions! I bought from quite a few people. Feedback was important and still is to me.

At one time I searched the word Case on ebay EVERY DAY and if I came across a Counterfeit I would save the photo on my computer.  Let me say I had  pictures of hundreds of counterfeit case knives. Most of the ones I saw were fairly easy to spot.  If I had a Question I would consult one of my many Books on the particular knife I was interested in  Buying.  

I was also a member of the CCCC. I enjoyed the Club because you could get other collectors thought's on if a Classic was legit or not. I saw many that were not what I thought were legit most all were Proto's.  I saw some classics that the exotic handles were Glued to the frame were they counterfeits? to me they were. i also had many pictures of the Case Classics. 

I never messed with other brands or Antique much so if they are counterfeited then I am unaware of them.


In Memoriam
Comment by Terry Ray on January 22, 2014 at 19:07

Knowing your knives, understanding how knives are made , the fit and finish, will help protect you from this problem,  Ebay is always a touchy subject, I know many people get treated bad , or flat out ripped off, there are 

reputable dealers out there, and on Ebay that you can expect and receive quality service from.

Thats why ikc is so important, here we can learn, teach, explore the knives we collect.


KnifeMaker
Comment by Dave Taylor on January 22, 2014 at 18:54

I have to agree with Jan and Steve.  I have never been a victim of this sort of thing, but then I am very careful to research, know my dealers, and don't fall for "bargains".  I have always tried to buy Quality in everything and that usually requires paying a price.  But I learned a long time ago that Quality does not cost, it pays.  Especially in a knife, (or anything else), that I may have to depend upon. 


In Memoriam
Comment by Robert Burris on January 22, 2014 at 13:26

Yes, I've had Bokers shield fall out and had to glue it back.

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