Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on May 7, 2011 at 22:12

Well Robert,

Here is a start and all I know

D2: An air-hardened tool steel, which offers good corrosion resistance and excellent mileage in wear resistance. A good choice for hard use applications. Hardners is rated 61-62

440C: A high-chromium stainless steel with a terrific balance of good hardness and corrosion resistance. 440C takes a nice edge and is fairly easy to resharpen. An excellent value priced steel for its performance. Hardness is rated at 59.

1095 is:an unalloyed steel containing .95% carbon or thereabouts (the rest would be iron) and trace impurities. Admiral Steel adds between .3 and .5% Manganese to theirs. 1095 is a pretty decent sword steel as well...maybe a touch too much carbon, but that depends upon the skill of the heat treater.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 7, 2011 at 22:31

Thanks Jan, I like 1095 and 440c and I read about your discription on the D2 but I want to know more. I think we will hear more from some of the members on this. Lets see what happens.

Permalink Reply by Andre de villiers on May 8, 2011 at 4:49

Hi Guys
I use a lot of D2 on my working knives, and its a super cutter. Getting that super sharpness that pops the hairs off your arm.I have not found much better even in other high performance steel.
A few small problems, its a little harder to grind , and its not totally stainless, so requires a bit of care.
Re-sharpening obviously will take a little longer, but it does not worry me as I sharpen on my machine.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 8, 2011 at 11:19

D2 is not a carbon steel, alloy tool steel which belongs to the stainless category and I do not care about those that say it stains because it still belongs in that group.

 

D2CPM is only D2 steel made by CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy), same thing but with the company name on it.

 

Robert, just because a steel is hard to sharpen doesn't mean that it is good. The best steel I have ever used performance-wise was a piece of cake on the stone. The best steel takes a small edge and is as easy as possible to sharpen, stainless steels tend to be much harder to sharpen but that's because it is made to last longer and have that stainless ability (something that is easily conquered with traditional forging though).

 

It is a fact though that an alloy type steel will never reach the same keen edge that a pure carbon steel does however. For example, my plane blades of the best alloy steel can get down to 6-8 microns while the carbon steels finish down to 3-5

 

Andre, D2 is quite sensitive to heat so you have probably messed up the tempering about now, D2 just like other alloy steels benefit the most from being brought out on stones, not as sensitive as my VAR WS#1 (Vacuum Ark Resmelting White steel #1) whose tempering can change only by working on the stone and are often "broken" into it's proper condition by rapidly working with it until it develops a slight warmth in the steel (called taming the temper since Jap woodworking tools tend to be slightly overtempered, or at least the good ones).

 

The hair test is also inferior, use freely hanging hairs if you are to use that method. The skin at the arm is way too thick for you to feel the serrations at the edge and it will rip off a layer of the skin along with the hair. So in order to get a good "hair" test I suggest that you shave your own face with it, much thinner skin and more nerves there which will immediately tell you if the edge is "razor sharp", a phrase that has grown to be laughable ever since the industrialization of steel.

 

I should probably mention that you should have some bandages around if you are to shave your face with a machine-sharpened blade unless you own a hand-cut 15k+ stone (even that tears on your skin though, I only shave with 30k).

Permalink Reply by Andre de villiers on May 9, 2011 at 1:21

Wow , I been making knives all my life, +_ 30 years, so I see what practically works and what does not.
There are quite few hundred hunters in Africa and USA taking my knives out every year, so I get a lot of feed back from them.
Obviously you have a lot more experiance and expertise and know what you are talking about!!!!! So we will let you give all the practical advice from now on.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 9, 2011 at 4:12

Thanks, I really appreciate the vote of confidence. I stated facts my friend, whether you choose to gain from them or not is entirely up to you.

 

By no means did I opt you to change your method but the phrase of calling something that has gigantic microscopic serrations and calling it razor sharp is a blatant lie. Those are facts and I couldn't care less about your 30 years of experience, I know what I know and you know what you know. If you are happy with D2 then by all means use it without heeding my advice about the sensitivity for the tempering.

 

All my cutlery tools are traditionally forged and above HRC 64, quenched in water in order to bring out as much of the crystallized structure as possible - that is an entire science and I have spent the many years it took to get a good grasp and put it into practice. These tools require skilled hands in order to even be brought out to functionality and expert hands to tap all their potential.

 

If you choose to heed my advice or not is as mentioned up to you. I'm not here to dillydally with someone that is already set in their ways and try to hand-feed you the teachings that I spent years of full workdays with my master to learn.

 

Sorry Andre but I am far too busy for that so by all means enjoy your power-tooled D2 :)

 

I won't talk about my client-base or the projects I have worked on, it couldn't bother me less except that the customer is happy with my work, and trust that I evaluate the sword properly - in the sword polishing business the customers are a couple of notches above the knife users when it comes to demands and evaluation.

 

That's it from my end, I gave Robert the answer he wanted and I won't try to reach you with something I know will fall on deaf ears. Maybe one last thing, instead of only relying on a practical approach like you say you have for 30 years you should perhaps also back it up with some research on the actual scientific facts also? There is quite a gigantic amount of information available to us today that thousands of people before us spent their lives on, it's really beneficial and can help one quite readily.

Just a thought on my end if you wish to improve your crafts.

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by Robert Burris on May 9, 2011 at 7:46

Thanks for all the imput, I guess it's different strokes for different folks. In my very limited experience, the knife I own in D2 takes a good edge but takes a while to sharpen. My knives in 1095 seem to get a bit more razor type edge and are alot easier to sharpen. They both seem to hold an edge about the same lenth of time. I know their are alot of new alloy steels out their but I guess I'm just old fashion and traditional.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on May 9, 2011 at 8:23

Personally I am an avid supporter of high-quality steels like boehler 990k, assab k120, blue steel #1 & #2, white steel #1 & 2. The focus on these steels is purity in the iron (not as much on WS#2 and BS#2 though) and grain quality which is also why they can reach such tremendously high performance when properly forged and be tempered all the way up to HRC 66-68.

 

Then there's the whole Tougou series, Tougou-Kou, Tougou-Reigou, Tougou-Inukubi are some of the most popular types but pretty much all steels that Admiral Tougou imported from Great Britain are of excellent quality.

 

None of these steels are HSS steels or powder steels but I have no problem going from carving into a production 1095 knife (traditionally forged is too hard/tough for that) and suffer no loss under 300x magnification on the serrations at the edge. It's hard to explain to someone that haven't experienced the wonder of a craft like this other than it's a true pleasure and thrill to use albeit the hardness is very unforgiving when sharpening.